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MoCA Mini Question

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by GumboChief, Sep 20, 2013.

  1. Tivo II Jack

    Tivo II Jack New Member

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    Aug 10, 2003
    Video sharing was already checked for all boxes.

    No idea what "force connections" means, but all the boxes, routers, modems, etc. have been rebooted multiple times since I noticed this problem.

    The ethernet cable is brand new Cat 6 cable. (All are)

    I assume you mean topology for the Roamio since the others are all working just fine between themselves.

    Coaxial into Roamio, into Tuning Adapter (TA) and into brand new Netgear N600 WiFi Cable Modem Router. The modem calls itself a combination Modem/Router. I am using a Linksys router, the Netgear is being used as a modem only.

    Ethernet Cat 6 from Modem to Roamio

    USB from TA to Roamio

    Hope that covers all.
     
  2. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

    3,647
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    Feb 28, 2001
    North...
    Good information, but not quite all. A remaining question is how your wireless part of the network is setup.

    From what you've said so far, it's very possible that your wireless router is setting up a separate local network from your wired connections - the wireless network then is forwarded to your wired network. That forwarding is fine for some purposes (like connecting to the internet) but not fine for other purposes like discovering other machines on your local network (since in this case you would have two local networks).

    You can check this by looking at the IP address of each TiVo, found on the network connections page. It should look something like 192.168.1.xx (where the xx are other digits.) All the machines on the same local network will have the first 3 numbers be the same (in the example above, the 192, the 168, and the 1). If your Roamiio has a number different from the other machines, then this is the problem. What are your numbers?
     
  3. lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,698
    5
    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    Just force a connection to TiVo under settings-network in the TiVo menu. Also make sure your wireless network is not on some guest part of your router, my router has a guest option that I use when I have a guest in my home, it has a different password and can't see anything on my main network but goes out to the internet without any problems, but does use the same first 3 IP digits so one could not tell you were on my gust network unless you looked at the SSID as my guest SSID is guest, my main SSID is my name.
     
  4. Tivo II Jack

    Tivo II Jack New Member

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    Aug 10, 2003
    This has to be the greatest community help board in existence, I think you have nailed it. My three older boxes are all 192.168.1
    with the last numbers being 101; 102 and 105.

    The Roamio IP is 192.168.0.114

    So what do I change and how do I change it?
     
  5. Tivo II Jack

    Tivo II Jack New Member

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    Aug 10, 2003
    Thanks, you obviously know what you are talking about, but I have found your responses difficult to follow or understand. I have never (intentionally) set up any guest network.

    Anyway, looks like Crispy has pinpointed my problem here.
     
  6. tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Active Member

    3,649
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    Jan 12, 2014
    Raleigh, NC
    I suggest you just set a static IP address. Just make sure you set it outside the range of dynamic IP addresses that your router assigns. Here are the instructions:

    http://support.tivo.com/app/answers/detail/a_id/407
     
  7. eboydog

    eboydog Just TiVo'ing.....

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    Mar 23, 2006
    Are all your TiVos using dhcp or are they staticly assigned? Strange that the Roamio got a .0.xx address while the others had .1.xx

    If all get their ip from the router (dhcp) then they all should be on the same subnet.

    Have you made config changes in your router? Might want to reboot the router and all TiVos.
     
  8. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

    3,647
    1
    Feb 28, 2001
    North...
    Static IP address is not likely to be the answer at all. There are two separate networks being set up at the moment, and my guess is there will be no connectivity between the two. Giving the Roamio a IP address on the wireless network will leave the Roamio without any way to talk to anybody, because it's not on that network (if I'm guessing the setup correctly.)
     
  9. Tivo II Jack

    Tivo II Jack New Member

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    Aug 10, 2003
    Tried following those instructions at least a dozen times and hit a dead end every single time. I have used the network settings dozens of times in the past and never had a problem before. Now I keep getting the error message:

    There is a problem with the router on your home network (N07).

    As I said in an earlier note, my Netgear Modem says it is also a router but I have everything connected via my Linksys router.

    The gateway address for Linksys router is 192.168.1.1 Netgear is 192.168.0.1

    Not sure if this will make sense, but the three older Tivos show the Linksys address but the Roamio shows the Netgear address. Before replacing my old defective modem with the Netgear modem (and before changing the Roamio from wireless to ethernet) all worked fine.

    I may need to redirect an ethernet connection because it may be that my current connections are causing the Roamio to use the router function of the Netgear modem while the older boxes are using the Linksys router.

    As said, not sure the above makes sense because it hardly does to me and I wrote it.<g>
     
  10. Tivo II Jack

    Tivo II Jack New Member

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    Aug 10, 2003
    Are we possibly talking about the same thing as in my previous confusing note?
     
  11. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

    3,647
    1
    Feb 28, 2001
    North...
    My interpretation of the setup is that there are two routers and DHCP servers active - that the wireless router is separate from the router connected to the internet. That is a a perfectly reasonable way to set things up as long as you don't have a need for broadcast packets (packets that are sent to all machines on a single network). Unfortunately, discovering all the other TiVos on the local network via broadcast packets is precisely what is needed here.


    The network configuration needs to be changed. There are a couple of different ways to do it.
    1. Method 1 - use the wireless router as the only router in the house. This assume that the wireless router has wired access as well. Network topology would be outside internet to your cable modem to your wireless router with ethernet cables to the rest of your house/network being plugged into the wireless router. Then the only network will be served by the wireless router (the other current router wouldn't be used). There may be some hardware obstacles to getting this to work. You will have to reboot your cable modem after connecting the wireless router to it.
    2. Method 2. Software solution. Keep the wireless router and the other router both on the network like now, but change the wireless router functionality to be a bridge instead of a full router, and turn off the DHCP functionality of the wireless router. Most wireless routers, but not all, will have this ability. This is a more complicated solution for a novice than method 1.

    Edit: we'll need more details about your current setup if you want to do anything other than Method 1 (and there may be good reason why Method 1 may not work for you). That would include model numbers of the routers involved and what exactly is plugged into what.
     
  12. lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,698
    5
    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    I will try to make it simple, you have two networks working, one at 192.168.1.xxx the other at 192.168.0.xxx I have never heard of an IP address having a 0 in the 3rd spot, so your setup is out of my league, but normally one can't set a fixed IP using the 3rd number, only using the 4th number, your 3rd number being a 0 has me stumped so I will leave this problem to other network experts on this Forum.
     
  13. Tivo II Jack

    Tivo II Jack New Member

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    Aug 10, 2003
    I may well be a novice where Roamio is concerned (5 1/2 months) but not with computers or older Tivos. Been using computers for over 20 years and build my own machines from components. This Roamio is quite the opposite from other new things. Usually there is some dissatisfaction with new things until we get to know them. I thought Roamio was the cat's meow the minute I set it up but other than its speed and capacity I'm beginning to find more and more reasons to dislike it, especially some of the ridiculous changes made to various Tivo Central menus and remote button changes..

    With each instruction I have followed so far, each has resulted in losses, no gains in solving this puzzle.

    I thought I already posted that information. The modem/router is a Netgear N600 C3700 and the original router is a Linksys WRT54GL. As far as what is connected to what, give me a starting point.
     
  14. Tivo II Jack

    Tivo II Jack New Member

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    Aug 10, 2003
    I believe the third spot 0 is 100% a creation of the Netgear modem/router. I have been looking to see if I can disable the router function thereby forcing all network connections to go through my original Linksys WRT54GL router.

    Right now, the only thing using that mystery 3rd spot 0 is my Roamio Pro. That came to be either when I switched the Roamio from wireless to ethernet or when I replaced my dead modem with the Netgear modem/router.

    I am betting on the latter.
     
  15. eboydog

    eboydog Just TiVo'ing.....

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    Mar 23, 2006
    Sounds like the netgear router is running off the linksys router and you are running two IP networks .

    What router is connected to your internet connection?

    What ever that is, that should be the network all your TiVos should be on. The 192.168.0.xx network is a proper subnet, it's just not commonly used, for example without going into a complete IP network course, the first three series of numbers in a home ip network should be the same. I for example use a unconventional ip net of 192.168.50.xx just because I like being different and for security as viral networked scripts commonly assume the standard 192.168.1.xx network, in some prior contract work I did for a security firm, I had to bring my work home and having a non-standard network was one of my security measures.

    Here goes a simple up network primer, bear with me as it not a rule on how such can be setup but rather how a typical home network is configured......

    The 198.162.1.xxx network us what is called a class c ip private network. The xxx can be any number from 0 to 254 giving you a max number of ip adderess's of 254 different unique addreses. Class c subnet of this type typically use the subnet of 255.255.255.0, and typically the lowest numbered ip address on the network is assigned to the router such as 192.168.1.1 which when configuring a default gateway, that address of the router is typically used as the default gateway.

    All addresses on that ip network will have a unique ip address, usually assigned by that router by "dhcp" so that manually assigning addresses isn't necessary. In a correctly said working network your TiVo might have a address of 192.168.1.12, your desktop pc might be 192.168.1.8. From that same router it may also be a wireless access point that provides a WiFi gateway to that same network thus Apple iPad could have an address of 192.168.1.20 AND by all this you have a single ip subnet network at home and all the devices and hosts are happily working cirrectly!


    ok? :)

    Anyhow, your Roamio is throwing out the config error most likely as it's either not able access the default gateway or it's figuring out that it's not directly connected to the internet and there is a another net in between it and the real internet (that's a guess, I don't know if the networking is that advanced in the Roamio. When you assign default gateway, you might try a quick dirty trick in entering both routers address's 192.168.0.1 and 192.168.1.1 assuming those are the address es if the linksys and the netgear, the catch is I'm not sure if the Roamio network config will allow more than one gateway , might try the one or the other and see what happens if you can't enter both.

    Your TiVo network is partially working because the older boxes are using a different, older method to discover other TiVo devices, the newer Roamio uses a different method that isn't allowing the newer type of TiVo discovery.

    The fix is to get all your TiVos on the same network, be it the linksys or the netgear, physically you have a single network but technically, you are running two separate ip networks that are routed and connected to each other. Not knowing exactly your setup and what us necessary and what's not, you need to either remove one of them or reconfigure one router to act as a gateway instead of a router.

    Forgive spelling errors or grammer as I'm using my phone to type this!
     
  16. Tivo II Jack

    Tivo II Jack New Member

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    0
    Aug 10, 2003
    Right now my Linksys router has IP 102.168.1.1 and the Netgear modem/router has IP 192.168.0.1

    I contacted Netgear and was told I had to change the Linksys Router IP to match the Netgear IP. I did that and went to one of the older Tivo series 3 to change the Network settings. That was a total waste of time that corrected nothing. I couldn't even download mail with that so I changed the IP back to 192.168.1.1

    Strange was that in the Now Playing list the series 2 still showed but the other series 3 was gone. When I changed the IP back, the other series 3 was back. I have no idea why the older series 2 was available with both IP addresses.
     
  17. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

    3,647
    1
    Feb 28, 2001
    North...
    Thanks (I was missing the Linksys).

    Start from the outside. If you give rooms, it might help us avoid non-workable solutions.
    outside coax to Netgear?
    Netgear to Roamio via wired connection (is the Roamio in the same room as the Netgear?)
    ...


    The easiest solution is to go down to one router. You can get two router solutions working, but the learning curve for networks is steep.

    Disabling the router function on the Linksys will work, but would be very difficult, if not impossible, on the Netgear since it is already routing from the outside world. You could change its IP address to a static address, turn off wireless routing, turn off DHCP service, change the Linksys address to a static address (it probably isn't one at the moment) and fool around with settings, and get things to work, but it will be painful.

    On the LInksys, you would need to change it over to bridge mode. Lots of folks have done it (search for "WRT54GL bridge mode"), but it requires new firmware on the Linksys apparently and while much easier than on the Netgear, is still troublesome (look at the search results to figure out if you want to do it).

    The best long-term solution, though it needs some grunt work now, is just to get rid of the Linksys router altogether, and use the wireless functionality on the Netgear. This requires setting up your wireless devices to connect to the Netgear; a pain, but it is a better, more modern wireless device with multiband capabilities.

    Edit: I should add that a short-term workaround is simply to plug the ethernet cord of the Roamio into the Linksys router instead of the Netgear router. You'll be running two routers/networks which may cause you problems in the future (search for "double natting" for instance) or other problems now, but solves the immediate problem since the Roamio will then be on the same network as the other TiVos.
     
  18. Diana Collins

    Diana Collins Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Aug 21, 2002
    New York...
    This is the problem. It sounds like your wiring goes like this, starting from the cable coming into your house:

    Code:
    Incoming cable --> Netgear Cable Modem/Router -|-> Linksys Router --> Tivos on wireless
                                                   |-> Roamio
    
    In other words, the Linksys Router and the Roamio are both plugged into the Netgear Modem/Router.

    The Netgear is creating one LAN (192.168.0.xxx) and the Linksys is creating another (192.168.1.xxx). You can see the wireless TiVos from the Roamio because they are communicating across the 192.168.0.xxx LAN when they connect to TiVo and so are in the routing table. The Roamio, being on the "WAN" side of the Linksys does not appear on the wireless LAN at all, and so is invisible to the wireless TiVos.

    The solution is very simple, the Roamio must be connected to an ethernet port on the Linksys, not to one on the Netgear. If there are no open LAN ports on the Linksys, go to Best Buy, Staples or some other such store and buy an ethernet switch (100Mbps is fine, but a gigabit switch will also work fine). Remove one ethernet cable from the Linksys Router, attach it to the switch, attach the Roamio to the same switch and connect the switch to the now empty port on the Linksys router.

    Once the Romio is connected to the Linksys, it will all work as expected.

    While cascaded routers are usually a bad idea (because of problems like this and sometimes performance issues) if it is working for you there is no need to fix it.
     
  19. Tivo II Jack

    Tivo II Jack New Member

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    Aug 10, 2003
    I need to correct a comment I made to Crispy earlier. I am also pretty much a novice when it comes to networking computers so I thank you all for your patience and little by little getting me on the path to success. The final adjustment took just one moved ethernet cable.

    My 4 active Tivos are named Roamio, Left, Right (both series 3) and Tosh (Toshiba Humax series 2 with built in DVD drive). Roamio is king, Left is rarely if ever used and Right is primarily used to record Mets and Jets games and little else. Tosh is in service only because without a cable card, it uses a TW cable box and allows me access to On Demand.

    When I first replaced my dead modem with the Netgear modem/router Ihe Roamio was plugged into one of the Netgear's 2 ethernet ports with the .0.1 IP putting it on a different network than everything else.

    The four ethernet ports on the Linksys were connected to 2 laptops, an Ooma phone and a Tivo USB/ethernet adapter for the Tosh Tivo.

    Just now, I unplugged the Ooma ethernet cable from the Lynksys and replaced it with the Roamio cable. I then plugged the Ooma cable into the Netgear modem/router since it was not part of the network anyway.

    The red lights on the Ooma went berserk for a while I guess while it was dealing with the new IP address but all returned to blue and the phone works fine now.

    I then checked all four Tivos and all are communicating with each other properly. Only one anomaly remains. At the end of the Now Playing list for the Tosh DVR, Left DVR is shown twice and I don't even really care about that.

    How crass of me. I got so into typing all the details I forgot to say thanks to fellow New Yorker Diana who actually posted the advice to move the Roamio cable from Netgear to Linksys. Instant success.
     
  20. Diana Collins

    Diana Collins Well-Known Member TCF Club

    2,642
    34
    Aug 21, 2002
    New York...
    Great!! I'm glad it's working!

    It was quite clever to move the Ooma since you are correct - it doesn't need any connections to the rest of your network devices.

    There are some potential issues down the road with cascaded routers. The issue is referred to as "Double NAT" where NAT stands for Network Address Translation. NAT is what allows all of your home devices to communicate over the internet through a single ISP assigned address. It also limits access to your local devices from the internet, and this is where "Double NAT" causes an issue. If you ever want to use GoToMyPC or out-of-home streaming from your TiVo to an iPad (for example) when you are travelling, you will need to eliminate one of the routers. But for general web browsing, email and the like, you should have no issues.

    I'm a Yankees fan, but I'm married to a Mets fan, so I'm agnostic. ;) Unfortunately, neither of us have much to cheer about this season.
     

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