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Mini is useless - V87 errors

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by mm2margaret, Feb 14, 2014.

  1. mm2margaret

    mm2margaret Meagan

    342
    0
    Dec 7, 2010
    northern...
    So, I have a Mini that has essentially become useless.

    I am constantly getting bombarded with v87 errors, often followed by c422 errors, and I am completely unable to use it at all.

    It was fine for a while, but of late it's become a liability. I just wonder if Tivo will ever figure out streaming. Other products can do it, but Tivo just can't as far as I'm concerned.

    I've done the usual: I've researched this forum, the Tivo forum, restarted everything, re-initialized the Moca connection on the Mini, the Roamio, assigned static IP addresses, and nothing stops the v87 errors, which means the product is useless.

    I should say that the Mini is connected via Moca to the Roamio. I've read somewhere that some folks have suggested running ethernet cable between the Roamio and their Mini's, but here on this forum, there are plenty of folks who have tried this and are also having problems. And, as Moca is the recommended way to connect the Mini to the Roamio, and it did work for a while, not sure what that would accomplish.

    Love to hear if anyone has any ideas....
     
  2. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

    3,646
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    Feb 28, 2001
    North...
    You have network problems. This isn't TiVo figuring out streaming; it is hardware or a setting somewhere - it definitely could be the TiVo with hardware problems.

    I would think that changing networks is the obvious way to debug. Connect via ethernet and see what happens.

    The two main problem paths to look at are
    1, Hardware on your Moca network
    2. Somehow having gotten two networks going. Plenty of people have run into this where two out of the three networks (Moca, wireless, ethernet) are being used, with the expected confusion and errors.
     
  3. sangs

    sangs Member

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    Jan 1, 2003
    New Jersey
    I understand your frustration, as I experienced the exact same problem with the Mini while using a MoCA connection. However, since switching to an Ethernet connection the Minis have worked flawlessly (knock wood). Is Ethernet a possibility for you at all? One of my Ethernet connections is through a MoCA adapter - and that was the most problematic Mini in my setup when it was using only MoCA.
     
  4. dianebrat

    dianebrat I refuse to accept your reality TCF Club

    10,116
    73
    Jul 6, 2002
    boston'ish
    As stated above, it sounds like you have a network issue that's manifesting in the MoCA setup. I'm not sure where the scads of folks having it still happen with ethernet is coming from, most folks say that going ethernet resolves issues. MoCA is sensitive to all sorts of wiring issues, especially bad connections, older unterminated connections, bad splitters, etc.

    I'd say the first step would be to test with ethernet, even if it means moving the mini for a day or so for testing.
     
  5. mm2margaret

    mm2margaret Meagan

    342
    0
    Dec 7, 2010
    northern...
    So, while I can run about 50 ft of Ethernet cable around the stairs and through a door as a temporary test, it's not practical to leave it there. So even if it works, I don't know what good long term it would be. Running Ethernet cable just for the Mini, because it can't do what Tivo says it can do, run on Moca, seems unreasonable given that I've invested a lot of money in Moca adapters, etc.

    I've been around the bend with Tivo; I've had HDs, two Premieres and now this configuration of Roamio and the Mini.

    Folks, other vendors can do streaming. Sling can do it, others as well. It's not rocket science. But Tivo just can't.

    MRV is broken and it can't get up. That's my opinion.

    I'll let you all know what good running 50-75 ft of Ethernet cable through the house will do.

    Jesus, what a pain. Sorry, but I'm pissed.
     
  6. ncfoster

    ncfoster Member

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    0
    Jan 22, 2011
    Have you performed troubleshooting on your coax wiring at all? I am not an expert in this arena, but if this is your first foray with MoCA, it would seem quite possible that it would be an issue with the coax, be it a splitter/amp issue, the need for a PoE filter, or just sub-standard wire.
     
  7. mm2margaret

    mm2margaret Meagan

    342
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    Dec 7, 2010
    northern...

    I appreciate all of the attempts to help, by the way. I do appreciate you taking the time to post.
     
  8. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

    3,646
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    Feb 28, 2001
    North...
    I'm sorry you're having problems, but how do you know you should be pissed at TiVo and not at your wiring?

    Thousands of folks are running their Minis on MoCa. There is something that is different in your Moca setup than their's, given that you have identical software and supposedly identical hardware. Whether it be cable amps, bad splitters, attenuators, loose connections, bad wires, bad Moca routers, bad TiVo hardware or whatever, something is different and causing you problems. Comparatively few of the possible problems can be TiVo's fault.
     
  9. lgnad

    lgnad Pantless Mofo

    691
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    Feb 14, 2013
    Massachusetts
    "Tivo just cant do streaming"

    My mini and XL4 have been 99.99% reliable. A couple of weird glitches on the initial software, and rock solid since.

    Apparently I am delusional and am not watching it stream every night when I go to bed for an hour or two, mostly over Moca to its host, or occasionally over another hop of ethernet through the XL4 to the base premiere. :)

    So, either you have a dud unit, or your wiring has issues.

    The suggestion is to try it over ethernet as a first troubleshooting step. If it doesn't work over ethernet, then you likely have a dud mini or Roamio. Your other choice is to move the Mini to a location that has ethernet temporarily instead of running cable through the house.

    Or, you can choose to skip that step and begin troubleshooting your coax problems. Or, just complain its Tivo's fault.

    What other steps have you already taken? What results did you find? What adjustments have you made based on those findings?

    Have you rebooted everything, including your cable modem, router, switches, the mini and the Roamio?

    What model Roamio? a base? What device is creating the moca network, the Roamio or do you have an adapter?

    How exactly is everything configured? What is your coax wiring layout/configuration? What changes have you made to the wiring to combat your problems? Are you OTA, Fios or cable? If cable, do you have a POE filter? Have you checked for open taps on splitters, old, out of spec splitters, bad terminations on cables, weird configuration of splitters leading to low signal levels, etc

    What do the network diagnostics for Moca say on both ends?
     
  10. dswallow

    dswallow Save the ModeratŠ¾r TCF Club

    50,973
    31
    Dec 3, 2000
    Long...
    If you have a spare coax cable long enough, connect the Roamio directly to the Mini. If it's a Roamio Base, use a single splitter and also connect the MOCA adapter you're using into the cabling, but keep it disconnected from everything else.

    If your Mini is then able to communicate reliably with the Roamio, you'll need to look at the remainder of your coax wiring configuration to identify what sort of changes you can try making.

    If you are still unable to get reliable communication between the Roamio and Mini, then one of the two devices has a problem and needs to be fixed.
     
  11. bs0755

    bs0755 New Member

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    Nov 23, 2007
    I am having the same problem with my Mini, and I have a ethernet connection (brand new cable). This mini was previously hooked up to a Premiere, and I never had a problem. I just purchased a Roamio Plus, and this is when I started having issues. I am also getting error messages when watching a transferred program on the Roamio itself.
     
  12. dianebrat

    dianebrat I refuse to accept your reality TCF Club

    10,116
    73
    Jul 6, 2002
    boston'ish
    There's no reason to run a 50ft + run of ethernet and all the encompassing hassle, you can test it by just picking up the Mini and bringing it to the other room.
    I'm not suggesting that it's permanent, just that it's a simple and easy way to test and make sure it's not the Mini and Tivo that are the problem and help you narrow it down to the wiring.
     
  13. mm2margaret

    mm2margaret Meagan

    342
    0
    Dec 7, 2010
    northern...
    Well, let's be honest here. Sure, my Coax could be the problem, but the point is that if you've had any experience with Tivo, you know that they often bring out half baked products.

    Point One: I bought one of the early Premiere's with one of the worst software releases in history, and it took about a year before they fixed it. Yes, I spent hours, actually I think it was days, troubleshooting it, and nothing worked, until Tivo fixed their product (software).
    Point Two: I bought the slide remote, which worked sometimes and then stopped working. Then magically, it would start working again. Then it would stop. Again hours spent troubleshooting with NO fix. Money, time and effort a total waste.
    Point Three: If you check this forum, v87 errors are listed numerous times. Currently there are three posts with v87 errors. There are many other posts with other errors.

    So, my take is Tivo brought another questionable piece of hardware, promoted using your existing Coax cable to sell it, and sure, for some it works. For many, it does not.

    That's not good enough, in my book.

    And, you know, in my upstairs bedroom, I installed Chromecast, and I use my wireless to cast Hulu videos to the TV. The Chromecast uses my wireless, which upstairs has the worst reception in my home. Guess what? Chromecast can stream. On s***ty wireless, all the way down to router and back, and yet, it works.

    I repeat: streaming is not rocket science. Sling can do it, Chromecast can do it and do it on s***ty wireless.

    Tivo can't. I say, no matter what the problem is, Tivo just can't stream, unless the connections are nearly perfect, which, I feel, is not a reasonable level of performance given the price they are charging for the product.

    I have connected it via Ethernet, and we'll see if that fixes it, or if I have bad hardware. But really, I just want my money back.
     
  14. mm2margaret

    mm2margaret Meagan

    342
    0
    Dec 7, 2010
    northern...
    Just to cover my bases...

    I have a Roamio Pro.
    I have installed a POE Filter, contrary to Comcast's advice.
    I have statically addressed my Roamio and my Mini
    I have rebooted everything
    I have spent hours troubleshooting this.
    Wired Ethernet works partially.
    I will contact Tivo for an RMA at this point

    But, my comment stands, that when it comes to streaming, People should not buy a Mini. I wish I had bought a Sling.
     
  15. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

    3,687
    4
    Oct 31, 2007
    Well, the Mini and Sling do completely different things...

    Do you have a powered coax splitter on your network? That can wreck havoc on a Moca signal!

    Do you have the ability to trace your COAX line and determine how many splitters are in the line between your Mini and the source? You can generally assume there isn't a splitter "in the wall", so if you can trace the termination points you should be able to count them.

    Is your Roamio acting as your MOCA bridge? If yes, you will want to track to number of splitters from the Roamio back to the common connection point (generally the source).

    The Mini is one of the most reliable products TiVo has put out in a long time, so, unless you received a bad unit, the issue is hidden someplace in your network.
     
  16. lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,695
    5
    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    Been using a Mini from the first day I could purchase one at Best Buy, got the error the first day I set the system up VIA MoCA, the next day all worked great, and I have never had a problem, so I have to conclude that your Mini problem is a problem in your home or with the Mini itself, not Minis in general.
     
  17. dianebrat

    dianebrat I refuse to accept your reality TCF Club

    10,116
    73
    Jul 6, 2002
    boston'ish
    Same here, and my Mini has been on MoCA, Ethernet, and now ethernet over PNA, it's always worked flawlessly.

    The Mini architecture isn't the issue here, either there's a defective unit or a network problem in the OPs home. Note that a network issue could easily go across the types of network such as wireless, MoCA, and RJ45.
     
  18. mm2margaret

    mm2margaret Meagan

    342
    0
    Dec 7, 2010
    northern...
    Folks:

    First of all, if I have network problems, how is it possible for Chromecast to work perfectly and stream perfectly on my crummy incompetent wireless network?

    And I would also say that just because the Mini works for you does not mean its' design is flawless. A device that works 80-90% of the time is neither a good device nor a reliable device.

    Here's the truth: the reason Tivo does not sell the Mini as a wired ethernet only device is because it wouldn't sell. Few homeowners have the desire or the funds to run ethernet cable for such a device. But that's really what the Mini is: a wired ethernet only device.
     
  19. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

    3,646
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    Feb 28, 2001
    North...
    Because the two networks have nothing at all to do with each other! MoCa and wireless are entirely different transport mechanisms. Why do you expect a possible problem with wiring in MoCa to affect a wireless network?

    The fact that you don't know anything about networks is not a reflection on you at all. However, blaming TiVo for your network problems is ludicrous, given that lack of knowledge.
     
  20. HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

    5,275
    3
    May 14, 2007
    Paradise...
    mm2Margaret, where is your POE filter installed?
     

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