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MFS Reformatter (mfsr)

Discussion in 'TiVo Upgrade Center' started by ggieseke, May 10, 2015.

  1. Dec 4, 2016 #841 of 947
    ggieseke

    ggieseke Well-Known Member

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    So it's seeing a valid first sector and enough of a partition table to identify the drive, but it can't find the volume header. That means that the auto-format routine failed in the very early stages. I second the suggestion to try wiping the drive. The short Write Zeros test in WD's Data Lifeguard Diagnostics is my tool of choice.

    In all my original testing, a Roamio would wipe any drive that it didn't recognize, but there have been some recent posts that suggest existing Windows or other partitions may screw up the auto-formatter these days.
     
    krkaufman likes this.
  2. Dec 4, 2016 #842 of 947
    Zombo

    Zombo New Member

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    Success! Did a quick erase in windows. Swapped into Roamio for auto-formatting. Swapped back into PC for MFSR. Then back to Roamio -- 6TB of recording goodness! :)

    Thanks for your help!
     
  3. Dec 4, 2016 #843 of 947
    ggieseke

    ggieseke Well-Known Member

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    Excellent news! It sounds like any existing data on a drive really can be an issue.
     
  4. Dec 6, 2016 #844 of 947
    duh FooL

    duh FooL New Member

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    So I upgraded my Roamio Pro with the WD 8TB Red NAS drive.
    After running mfsr, I restarted mfsr and it shows:
    Series5 7452.04 GB found
    5399.79GB allocated for recordings.
    Is this correct?
    I'm about to unplug and let it boot, but wanted to confirm before I start migrating all my shows from the Roamio.
     
  5. Dec 6, 2016 #845 of 947
    ggieseke

    ggieseke Well-Known Member

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    You just found a display bug in 1.0.0.4. :oops: The correct number should be 7447.79 GB allocated for recordings, but it's still ready to plug in and you should see over 1280 hours in the System Information screen on your Roamio.

    At the end of the program it goes back through the partition table and adds up the ones specifically tagged as media partitions, but on drives over 6TB I had to put a 4th media zone in the application partition that it's not taking into account. Sorry for the confusion.
     
  6. Dec 6, 2016 #846 of 947
    duh FooL

    duh FooL New Member

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    No problem.
    I went with the 8TB drive was people had posted success with it, but no one had reported this anomaly before.
    I booted it anyway and saw the expected number of hours, so I was hoping it was a non-functional bug.

    Great work.
     
  7. Dec 6, 2016 #847 of 947
    sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    About to upgrade a Roamio Pro to 6TB using WD Red WD60EFRX. Is there any reason to keep the original pro 3TB drive around or is it safe to repurpose into a Roamio OTA? Used to keep old S3 drives around for a copy of original image, but from what I understand on Roamio, the drives are initially blank and the images are kept somewhere else.

    In the past whenever there were hard drive problems, there were some early symptoms and which allowed some time to to dd_rescue onto a similar size drive and fortunately the errors were in media areas, not critical data.
     
  8. Dec 6, 2016 #848 of 947
    jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    The only reason to keep it around is if there a must have recording that it would be devastating to you if you lost it. Otherwise go ahead and re-purpose the drive. I would do a quick erase on the drive first with WD Diagnostic before putting it in the new machine.

    The OS on the Roamio and Bolt models reside on a flash drive on the motherboard.
     
    sfhub likes this.
  9. Dec 7, 2016 #849 of 947
    HoosontheTeevo

    HoosontheTeevo New Member

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    Hello - thanks for this excellent resource and
    ggieseke and Jmbach et. al. for your help and guidance.
    1. I have a Tivo Roamio Plus that I upsized to 4TB with Telemark's guide in early 2015.
    2. I would now like to go to 8TB from 4TB with a WD Red 8TB drive.
    3. If I want to save any recordings from my current drive I will need to transfer them to a PC first using kmttg/tivo desktop and then transfer them back with pytivo or pulling from the Tivo "devices" menu after the new drive is in.
    4. I will use posts #1 and #2 of this thread and since my Tivo Roamio software is 20.6.3 I'm good to go and will use MSFR 1.004 for the 8TB size.
    5. I don't have to do anything special or get to skip anything since I already did something similar to upgrade to the 4TB lastyear? I pop the fresh drive in the Tivo briefly to the guided setup (country) before pulling it and putting it into my Win 7 machine for the MSFR format. (it formats but retains a section with the Tivo formatting that it received by booting it up in the roamio briefly?)
    6. There is no direct copy/clone/disk to disk copy procedure I can do to retain my shows more quckly - and I'll have to use the transfer shows/push back to get them back on my new drive?
    7. (just thought of this) could I add a used 2nd roamio to my system and use it just for storage/transfer during this upgrade? Would it need its own cable card and Tivo subscription if it was just to store shows already recorded on my main Roamio?)
    8. And is there any need for a power-brick/transformer upgrade for my roamio plus when i go to the WD 8TB 5400rpm drive?
    THanks for any further info/clarification. Sorry for redundancies. I plan to donate as I did before.
     
    Last edited: Dec 7, 2016
  10. Dec 7, 2016 #850 of 947
    ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay

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    Each Tivo requires its own service subscription to operate.
    It also is not a good device for long term storage of shows.
    Cable card is used just for access to record off cable and once recording is finished, its not required anymore.

    You can download shows and store them on a large (can be a NAS) hard drive as .MPG, or MPEG4. Some NAS system even has the ability of PyTivo service so transfers back to Tivo are possible.
     
  11. Dec 7, 2016 #851 of 947
    ggieseke

    ggieseke Well-Known Member

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    1-5 Correct.
    6. I have a program in the very early development stages to do just that, but stuff got crazy at work back in late July and I haven't touched it since then and probably won't be able to get back to it this year. Had to work the 4-day Thanksgiving weekend and Christmas/New Years is looking sketchy.
    7. It would have to have an active subscription, but not a CableCARD.
    8. The internal power supply in a Plus should be fine - it was designed for 3.5" drives. I've been running my Basic with a 4TB Red for more than a year with the wimpy external factory power supply, and I used it for the 8TB development because it was already open and my Pro was harder to get to.
     
  12. Dec 7, 2016 #852 of 947
    delgadobb

    delgadobb Active Member

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    Heads-up for anyone who shops at Frys Electronics & gets their daily promo codes:

    In today's promo codes they have a WD 8 TB MyCloud external drive for $198.01 with promo code (normally $250). In addition it's part of their 'we pay the sales tax' promotion for certain items. I have reserved one for pickup in Las Vegas & it's supposed to cost me $198.01 out the door. They are only available for store pickup & technically available until tomorrow (12/8/2016) at this price with promo code, though I'd recommend picking it up soon as these may sell out.

    I mention this because last year I purchased a 5 TB MyCloud drive from Frys on Black Friday for $88 (wish I'd gotten two.) I decided to open it up & lo & behold there was a 5 TB WD Red inside. That's been running strong in my Roamio OTA for about a year now. From personal experience & the digging around I've done, it sounds like a WD Red or equivalent is in these drives. Worst case I figure it's a WD Green or equivalent; I don't think Green drives go that large, tho. Internal WD 8 TB Red drives go for over $300 at the cheapest vendors, so this could be a great deal for anyone looking to upgrade.

    Caveat: I'm not making any promises here. There is a reasonable expectation of what type of drive may be inside, but there's no way to know for sure until you open it. I'm just the messenger, but hopefully I'm bringing some people a good message :)
     
    Mikeguy likes this.
  13. Dec 8, 2016 #853 of 947
    delgadobb

    delgadobb Active Member

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    aaronwt and Mikeguy like this.
  14. Dec 8, 2016 #854 of 947
    Mikeguy

    Mikeguy Well-Known Member

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  15. Dec 8, 2016 #855 of 947
    HoosontheTeevo

    HoosontheTeevo New Member

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    Thanks delgadobb - unfortunately i'm on the east coast - and don't have access to that sale. that mycloud looks like it is about $300. I'm looking at the 8tb mybook that is listed around $229 and may or may not have the 8tb WD Red clone (EZZX) in it.
    any chance these enclosures can be opened - and if it isn't the desired drive- they could be put back together so they are in new/returnable condition?
     
  16. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    Just some information for the community.

    I was going to do this on an old WinXP box but ran into the 2TB limitation. Even though my motherboard BIOS supports full 48-bit LBA (so theoretically it should support 128PB), effectively this is being limited to 32-bit LBA (2TB) due to WinXP OS-level drivers. The drivers tend to overlow the bits and the drive size you see is just the amount that is over a multiple of 2TB, for example 6TB (around 5.5TB) shows up as 1496GB.

    If you have (I believe) Intel ICH7 or newer IO chip, you can obtain newer Intel RST drivers to address the OS issue. I think the last version which both fixed the 32-bit OS limitation and works on WinXP is 10.1.0.1008.

    Search downloads

    Now, my board uses ICH5R i/o chipset and none of the Intel RST packages that fixed the 32-bit limitation would install on ICH5R boards. I tried forcing it and my system wouldn't boot (if you play with this stuff, make sure you have ability to get to previous known working driver set up). I suspect if you have older (but not ancient board like mine), you can get this working just by installing the aforementioned Intel RST drivers.

    Incidentally I know this is just a higher level (relatively) driver issue, because Western Digital Data Lifeguard does see my drive as 6TB and it can write zeros and run extended tests on it, however Windows Disk Management does the 32-bit overflow thing. Theoretically I think MFSR could work on these older boards if it bypassed some windows functions but I am sure it isn't worth the effort. The way these older systems work with 48-bit LBA is they push the LBA address twice in the 32-bit registers, so access is slower but it works. This wouldn't fix the issue with WinXP and larger than 2TB obviously, but MFSR doesn't really need to deal with OS high-level limitations since the drive is never intended to live on the WinXP box. It just needs to get the proper data written out, which I believe should be possible since WD Data Lifeguard can do it.

    I was gifted one of those really inexpensive win10 laptops (I think less than $100) which don't even come with hard drive ports anymore, instead opting for onboard 32GB eMMC memory. I thought it was a useless unit (I need to do a lot of work just to get the monthly all-in-one win10 updates to install on a 32GB drive, and most people can't even get the updates to install), especially after I found out it didn't have a SATA port so I couldn't upgrade to decent SSD, but it turns out to be perfect for almost one-time use to do the TiVo partition readjustment. Since it didn't have any drive ports I decided to go with a SATA-to-USB adapter that supported greater than 2TB.

    I wanted something I could pick up locally which basically means Frys. If someone wants a unit that is known to work with larger drives:
    Vantec IDE/SATA TO USB 3.0 Adapter It is around $19.99 but I am sure it goes on sale eventually at frys. I could probably get something in the $10-$12 range if I tried, but it wouldn't be local and I would have to wait.

    Plugged it into the drive and into the win10 laptop, immediately Windows Disk Management could see the full 6TB size, far less effort, especially since I had this useless laptop lying around. Incidentally I am amazed they can get a PC with 14" display, USB3 port, and decent battery life down below the $100 price point. The previous version of the same laptop (same price) actually came with SATA port so you could put in Samsung SSD and have a usable laptop.

    I also was under the impression these Roamios just came with blank drives and the OS formatted whatever it saw. That apparently isn't the case. There is TiVo partition info on the drive even before first turning on the unit. You won't have issues putting a blank drive in (the OS is kept separately and will format the drive), just the original drive isn't blank, in case you are the cautious type and want to save off what was originally there before doing any modifications.

    As an aside, even if your WinXP can't recognized larger than 2TB on its own, I believe you can effectively use up to 16TB as a non-boot windows drive without additional drivers. The way this is done is to format the drive on a different PC as NTFS using 4KB blocks.

    The 2TB limit we are talking about is on the LBA (logical block address). With 512byte block size, that means 2TB. If you increase the block size to 4KB (8x larger) then the limit is 2TB*8=16TB. However you can't do the format on the PC in question because the tools won't recognize the full drive, doing the 2TB 32-bit overflow thing.

    Now I'm being hit with a stupid TiVo bug. I got the Roamio because Comcast all of a sudden started charging "outlet fees" on each of my S3 OLED cablecards (4 total). I was paying $1.50 each which is what is on the rate sheet, but now they were charging something like $14.99 per card with some credits for customer equipment. They wanted to charge me something like $50/mo for CableCards which have been in my TiVo for a decade and most likely listed as "worthless/obsolete" in their inventory. I have long ago paid for their full value in rental fees.

    I complained left and right, escalated, multiple levels, complained to local franchise authority and eventually a few weeks later got a letter from corporate apologizing and reinstating my previous rate.

    I knew the writing was on the wall though so got the Roamio so I could get back down to a single cablecard where I wouldn't have these stupid outlet fee issues. I am sure Comcast will do this to me every few months to wear me down.

    So I picked up the Roamio and wanted to offload the S3 shows onto the Roamio. Now I get hit with the 2.6.3.RC7 bug where S3s can access the Roamio but the Roamio (and Bolt, Premier) cannot access the S3s (C423 error). Big good it would do to offload my shows back onto the S3s I am trying to retire. Who knows when TiVo will fix this problem. There are claims they are working on it, but I am not confident it will happen soon. I haven't been back here in a while and didn't realize after the Rovi purchase it seems software bugs are being introduced more often than bugs being fixed. I am sure I'm affected by the HDMI audio DD/PCM bug that is also in this software version, but right now I am watching stuff through Slingbox so don't really care.

    So Premiere's can work around the bug by switching to SD menus. I get the feeling HD menus is something like a whole different implementation of TiVo living side-by-side with the more solid older implementation in the SD menus. Any change in the HD menus seems to break everything else. Perhaps nobody is around that even understands the SD menus and the people doing HD menu implementation are just operating blind.

    I am sure a bunch of people are annoyed with the recent CyberMonday/Whitesale where they picked up a 4 or 6 tuner Roamio with the intention of retiring their older units and finding out just a few days after they purchased their unit, a software/OS update comes that breaks the ability to access their older S3/HDs. I think TiVo/Rovi has this backwards. Usually you disable access to force people to buy a newer unit. You don't sell them the unit first, then disable access. I am being facetious here, obviously this is a bug, not a feature created by marketing.

    Also as an aside, I went with the 6TB vs the 8TB WD Red because the 8TB seemed to run warmer and had clicking noises. Also it seemed more people were complaining about reliabilty even though theoretically the helium drives should have less wear and tear. I think the problems weren't with the platters but with the motors and head. I am sure many of the drives are fine and all drives have isolated reliability issues. With the clicking noise and the slightly more heat on the Hitachi/WD Helium 8TB, I just went with the tried and true 6TB "old" technology drives.

    Hope someone finds this info useful.
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
  17. ggieseke

    ggieseke Well-Known Member

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    Good info.

    I'm still not sure what some of the 8TB WD drives in those enclosures really are under the hood. Maybe the HGST 7200RPM version? The WD80EFZX that I bought straight from WD when it came out is actually slightly quieter than the WD60EFRX drives that I've grown to trust & love. Mine peaked out at about 117F after 3 days of continuous stress tests.

    Technically XP can handle drives over 2TB except for the boot drive, but after 40+ pages in this thread I realize that the odds of finding the right combination of chipsets and drivers on a box that old are slim to none. That applies to a lot of older USB docks too. For the record, if Disk Manager can't see the full capacity mfsr won't see it either.
     
  18. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    I think the 5400RPM WD80EFZX is quieter than the WD60EFRX in general but there is some clicking noise I have heard on a few them. Maybe it is some thermal recalibration the drive does. I think it runs slightly hotter than WD60EFRX though, just a small amount. The specs say it uses more power so that isn't surprising.

    At the low level WinXP handles larger than 2TB drive, but somewhere above that there is a 2TB 32-bit limitation on stock WinXP SP3. I could not try the fixed drivers because the 10.1 Intel RST (storage) drivers don't support my older chipset (ICH5R is from 2002 days), but supposedly ICH7 and higher is supported (which is probably around 2005 days), so if someone wanted to try something real quick, here is the link for the 10.1.0.1008 driver: Search downloads
    It should work for any motherboard using Intel IO chipset, which is most, if not all, boards using Intel CPU.

    Here is an example of someone getting a 3TB drive recognized with 10.1.0.1008 so theoretically if you can get that done, MFSR should work fine with it.
    How to solve a 3TB hard drive showing up as 746gb
     
    Last edited: Dec 24, 2016
  19. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    Just to clarify, the refurb Roamio 500GB OTA came with tivo partition info on the drive. The brand new June 2016 built Roamio Pro came with blank drive. Perhaps they turn on the refurbs to test them and that is why they come with TiVo partition on the drive.

    So on a new Roamio Pro, there is literally no information of value on the drive until first boot.
     
  20. sfhub

    sfhub Well-Known Member

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    Curious, is this expected behavior?

    On the original 3TB drive, the Free space is less than Capacity

    On the new MFSR 6TB drive, the Free space is MORE than Capacity.

    I am going by screenshots, so I don't think my eyes are playing tricks on me.

    This is with 20.6.3.RC7 on Roamio Pro.

    Original 3TB WD30EURX drive
    3TB - 476 HD or 3270 SD Capacity
    3TB - 473 HD or 3267 SD Free

    New 6TB WD60EFRX
    6TB - 959 HD or 6606 SD Capacity
    6TB - 964 HD or 6653 SD Free
     

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