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Lost - "The End" 5/23 series finale (spoilers)

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by jkeegan, May 23, 2010.

  1. scooterboy

    scooterboy Coney Island Small

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    East...
    I did read the thread, but I still don't understand how it's so clear to everyone.

    It seems very ambiguous to me.

    But it's ok. I still enjoyed it, and enjoyed the whole series.
     
  2. aindik

    aindik Well-Known Member

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    Philadelphia...
    It's clear to everyone because we are assuming that in the scene with Jack and Christian, Christian was telling the truth.
     
  3. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give em Hell, Devils

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    That's funny, because I've heard several critics bemoaning the fact that they didn't leave it more ambiguous, but instead hit us over the head with it when Christian was explaining everything to Jack.
     
  4. jradford

    jradford The Jerkstore called

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    I think one of the things Christian said to Jack basically stated that there was no such thing as time, (or "now," as Christian put it,) in the Sideways verse. You can't compare it to any sort of timeline taking place in the real world.
     
  5. jking

    jking Become who you are.

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    I can't remember the exact dialog, but Christian told Jack that they had created this place so that they could find each other, because the time they had spent together was the most important of their lives. Had they died in the initial crash, they wouldn't ever have even known each other. They would have been a bunch of strangers who died in a plane crash. The island stuff had to have happened, in order for them to have been important enough to one another to want to find each other again.
     
  6. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give em Hell, Devils

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    Not to mention that how were characters like Desmond and Penny in the church if the Island stuff never happened and the 815 passengers died in the crash?
     
  7. Waldorf

    Waldorf Super Duper Member

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    Yes.. it makes things such as Daniel Faraday's mom not being ready "yet" kind of strange. As if she would be ready further in the future even though there is no time.

    On second viewing, when Sun and Jin told Sawyer they didn't need protecting, it seems more humorous. It's as if they're saying, "we're already dead.. what are you going to protect us from?" ;)
     
  8. Delta13

    Delta13 Missed left turn

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    Momma Faraday / Momma Widmore doesn't need more time to get ready, she simply wants more time to enjoy being with her son. Like she's soothing guilt. There may be no "now", but the clocks work if you wish. :)
     
  9. danterner

    danterner Not it!

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    At the risk of making things more confusing, I'll take a crack at explaining this via a quick diagram:
    [​IMG]

    Each pink dot on the linear time arrow represents someone's death. When they die, they go to purgatory. Purgatory is outside of time, so it doesn't matter when in the real world they died. The moment of their death in the real world is their first moment in purgatory. Presumably, purgatory "starts" at the same time for each of our losties --- say, on 815.

    Think about Juliette's death. She talked about how "it worked" and about getting coffee. At the time we assumed "it worked" referred to the bomb, but really it was a bleed-over from her conversation with Sawyer by the vending machines in purgatory: unplugging and replugging them worked. And then they talked about getting coffee. So Juliette entered purgatory right as she died.

    Jack, on the other hand, entered purgatory after he plugged the stopper back into the island. He laid down and succumbed to his fatal stab wounds. The fact that he happened to lay down in the same place and position as where we "found" him in the opening scene of the pilot episode is just a nice bit of literary parallel, as is bookending the series with his eye opening versus eye closing. We're not supposed to think that the final scene with him bleeding out took place in the moments immediately following the crash of 815 or anything like that. Look at his clothing. It's entirely different. That's because everything that happened (on-island and off) between the crash and his death years later really did happen.

    Unfortunately, the fact that Darlton had him lie down in precisely the same spot has led some people to be confused about that. And that confusion was compounded when ABC took it upon themselves to throw in some shots of 815 wreckage during the credits. They were just trying to "ease the transition to the next show" but they wound up leading people toward believing that we were being told that (1) 815 really did crash with no survivors, or (2) Ajira crashed right after takeoff. Neither is the case.

    The real puzzle, for me, is the question: Do the purgatory scenes we have seen come from Jack as his dying vision, or is it just as Christian explained it to be (and when Jack died, he went to purgatory just as all had before him and some would well after him). I vacillated between the two and see the merits of both, but ultimately decided the second is the way I choose to believe.
     
  10. DavidTigerFan

    DavidTigerFan No, not Detroit. TCF Club

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  11. scooterboy

    scooterboy Coney Island Small

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    East...
    Thank you all for explaining it to me. I guess Christian's explanation just didn't sink in when I watched it, and the wreckage shots during the credits did indeed confuse me.

    I think I get it now. :)
     
  12. stellie93

    stellie93 Active Member

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    I liked the ending much better after a read the first couple pages of the thread and thought about it a little. It grows on you. So 5 days later I finally got caught up.

    Comparing this to Twin Peaks is a huge insult. I liked Twin Peaks, but it had no plot whatsoever. I see the comparison to Stephen King books. The trip is always way better than the ending in them.

    A couple things from Hurley's podcast. They said that in the script the church scene was referred to as Jin and Sun's wedding to keep them in the dark. Also he said that there were several vans outside all with Santa Rosa insignia on them. They were afraid it was going to be everyone crazy in the asylum at the end. ;)

    The best 6 years in TV ever, and a great ending. :up:
     
  13. Magnolia88

    Magnolia88 She likes cheese.

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    I don't either.

    The next morning after the finale, on GMA they were all "so everyone was dead all along and they were in purgatory the whole time." Huh? :confused: Apparently quite a few people believed that, but I don't understand how, if they watched the whole finale.

    Christian explained it all to Jack. They all died at different times, some of them many years apart. (Hurley could have lived for thousands of years, I guess, if the drinking of the water made him immortal, although that isn't clear to me.) So they could not have died in the crash, all at the same time.

    There were a lot of questions left ambiguous or unanswered at the end of the finale, but that wasn't one of them. I don't see how anything that happened in the finale made anyone think they all died in the crash.
     
  14. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give em Hell, Devils

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    They didn't put that in the script. Anyone who had a copy of the script could read it and would know that's not what was going on at the church. He said they put a sign in front of the church that said Jin and Sun's wedding, and also parked a bunch of Santa Rosa Mental Hospital vans in front of the church just to throw any potential spies off the trail.
     
  15. aindik

    aindik Well-Known Member

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    Philadelphia...
    I think it was a call sheet, not a script, that said the scene was Jin & Sun's wedding. In case it leaked.
     
  16. Keith_R90210

    Keith_R90210 New Member

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    Good diagram and explanation. It took me some reading through this thread the day after the finale but it all makes sense to me now. I still don't understand how people could think otherwise when Christian outright explained it in the church.

    I tend to lean towards the second option (that it is just as Christian explained it), the structure of the scene and the final closing shot do make it a puzzle though. I choose to believe it is not Jack's final death vision and feel much more satisfied with it being something that they all took part in.

    The way I see it (and I apologize if I'm smeeking), it makes more sense if it is everyone partaking. Why would Jack see a world where Sun gets shot and Kate is arrested again, or him and Juliette are divorced? Also as others have said, why would Christian have a reason to lie to him at this point?

    I think the logical conclusion at this point is that it is everyone's vision and not just Jack's.
     
  17. philw1776

    philw1776 Active Member

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    Good diagram & good defense of the everyone's in Limbo vs Jack's vision.

    ABC really screwed the pooch for many with those concluding shots. Had me wondering for a minute.
     
  18. wprager

    wprager Active Member

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    I'm really struggling trying to understand why some of you (especially some of you) are even considering that the entire LAX could have been Jack's personal purgatory. There was absolutely nothing that pointed to that, and quite a few things that pointed away from it.

    I can understand how you may feel that that *could have* been another way to finish, maybe even say that that's how *you* would have done it, but as far as I am concerned there is no ambiguity at all. Christian spelled it out -- they created this place together so they could all meet up after they died. All those scenes we were shown that had no connection whatsoever to Jack are pretty conclusive as well.

    Oh, by the way, maybe "this place" did not refer to the entire sideways universe. Only a small number of them gathered at the church (plus Ben just outside and some of the later characters like Eloise and Daniel, Charlotte, Miles, etc.), but we definitely saw many, many other characters and countless "strangers". Perhaps "this place" refers to the concert that was used as an excuse to get them all together, or maybe just the church. Who knows. I'm not losing any sleep over why there were so many other people in the place that only a small number of them created for themselves.
     
  19. Anubys

    Anubys KMT Soccer Playa

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    I didn't get it at first, either...you get so wrapped up into not missing anything that you miss the obvious...I kind of got the idea but wasn't sure until I came here and read everyone's comments...

    once I went back and re-watched, it was so painfully obvious that I feel like a dunce for not getting all of it the first time...I think it's one of those deals where you are so used to double/triple meanings and mysteries that when everything was put right there in black and white, your mind just could not accept it!
     

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