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Is this really it?

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by anthonymoody, Jun 1, 2014.

  1. bareyb

    bareyb Under Maintenance TCF Club

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    Streaming sucks. Period. If that were my only choice, I'd be severely depressed. I'm sure the Advertisers would LOVE it if we switched over to an all streaming system though. That way they could force us to watch their commercials like they do on VOD. I would hope people would be smarter than that... but we will see. Sounds like a lot of people think that's where we are going and seem fine with it... Boggles the mind. :confused:
     
  2. squint

    squint New Member

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    I agree that streaming sucks and if "they" had their way we would not only be forced to watch commercials but we would have to pass a quiz to prove we paid attention to the commercial before being allowed to watch.
     
  3. anthonymoody

    anthonymoody New Member

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    When (not if) all movies and tv shows are available to stream on demand at any time it will be a far superior experience to DVRs, TiVo or otherwise.

    If you think that will never happen, you're simply wrong.
     
  4. bareyb

    bareyb Under Maintenance TCF Club

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    I think it probably will happen. Not because it's better but because it will make more money for advertisers and content providers. You don't think they HATE that we can skip commercials? Remember how hard they fought against VCRs and lost? Guess what? Politicians are so easily bought and paid for now, that next time they will probably win... Then we'll have to live through a very long period of time where we are once again forced to watch commercials. Welcome back to the sixties. :rolleyes:

    If you think it's superior to having a DVR then you're simply wrong. A system based entirely on the Cloud is going to suck in SO many ways, and I can't believe people are too short sighted or naive to see where it's headed.
     
  5. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    +1000. I'm amazed how many people actually enjoy something like Hulu+ which not only has subscription fees but you get forced to watch commercials as well. If that's the model of future TV I want no part of it. I'm OK with the Netflix model since streaming quality is pretty good and no forced commercials as of yet. But any serious TV watching I much prefer the DVR model where I have much more control.
     
  6. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Hulu + came in handy today for my GF and I. We are still in the process of watching Law and order SVU episodes and one of them was messed up. I think from back when I was messing with my MoCA connection. Anyway the FiOS recording had glitches and I had already deleted my OTA backup. So Hulu+ came in handy for watching the episode. Sure there were a few minutes of commercials. But it was certainly better than having to pay $3 for the episode from Amazon, Vudu, or XBL.
     
  7. moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Reinforces my point - many people (you included) will gladly pay for such services and tolerate the commercials. That's not a model I'll embrace.
     
  8. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Hulu + isnt a service I use on a regular basis . But it has come in handy when I had some kind of an issue. I had actually planned on dropping it but never got around to it. I don't use it much. The last time I used it prior to today, was to watch some episodes of Zero Hour.

    For instance today, it was a quick way to watch the SVU episode. But depending on the show, I would pay the $3 for the episode from Amazon, Vudu, or XBL.
     
  9. bareyb

    bareyb Under Maintenance TCF Club

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    Let me ask you this. How would you like it if the Hulu model was the only choice available to you? Not much I'd guess since you "don't use it on a regular basis". That's the point we are trying to make. It may be "fine" as a last resort, but if all indicators are correct, what you are tolerating today for the sake of convenience will one day be the only choice you have. Is that what you want??? I didn't think so... and yet, people are being led here like sheep to the slaughter. It's already started. You don't think they are gauging interest and outrage right now? It's one or two commercials today, but mark my words, once they lock it down, the price will skyrocket and there will be 5 minutes of commercials for every 15 minutes of programming, just like it is right now. Possibly more since they will have you held hostage.
     
  10. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    If that happened then i would quickly drop Hulu+ and just pay the money per episode. I don't the occasional commercial. But not 20 minutes an hour worth.

    And if the only option is to watch with 20 minutes of commercials. Then that will be a show I won't be watching anymore.
     
  11. bareyb

    bareyb Under Maintenance TCF Club

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    Those will likely have forced commercials too. There is simply too much money to be from advertising and now they have a way to guarantee advertisers that you will have to watch their commercials.
     
  12. L David Matheny

    L David Matheny Active Member

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    They say "never say never", but I think there are probably some of us who will indeed never watch embedded commercials that can't be skipped or ignored somehow. Life is too short to be forced to watch ads for something you will never in a million years purchase, just because some advertiser is willing to pay to torture you. If it comes to that, I'll read more or take more naps or sit at a bar and drink more beer or something less stressful than watching mindlessly untargeted commercials.
     
  13. tomhorsley

    tomhorsley Active Member

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    Ah, but they won't be un-targeted, they'll be driven by everything google and amazon knows about you. In fact I can see it now:

    "We know you've been looking at the new WizzBang 2000, so we've ordered one for you. Cancel by the end of this commercial if you don't want to get one (cancellation instructions are embedded in the 4000 page terms of service document you never read :)."
     
  14. anthonymoody

    anthonymoody New Member

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    Fact is, you're munging the notion itself with the implementation thereof. I never did. Your straw man about how you believe it will play out in terms of specific implementation is simply that: a straw man. One with which, incidentally, I agree for the most part. Your emotional knee jerk speaks for itself.

    All else being equal however, an on demand cloud based system in which you can watch whatever you want, wherever you want, whenever you want, on any device you want, is simply flat out better than a DVR solution for which you have to, among other things:

    -Remember to set season passes prior to the first episode airing, and if not, then remembering to find a rerun of the missed episodes, and record those separately, or switch your season pass from New to All and back to New again. What fun!

    -Constantly manage storage space. Yes, even in the age of 3-4TB solutions. What fun!

    -Figure out the hard way which shows your cable company flags such that you can't side load them onto your devices. And then live with those limitations. What fun!

    -Skip through ads while watching shows, either with multiple presses of the 30 sec skip, or with the FF button, in which you overshoot a meaningful % of the time and then have to scrub back to find the right spot. Again, what fun!

    Those are all PITAs that exist today when using DVRs. That's fact, not conjecture. You may not be bothered by those things. I am. Others are too. Still others maybe not so much.

    You may be bothered by forced commercial watching for a paid service (eg Hulu+). Others are too. And still others not so much given the relatively low price and high convenience.

    Then there is that little service that belies your supposition about where it's all going: the iTunes purchase market. You can currently buy pretty much any episode of any show, and usually at the earliest possible date (ie before they appear on streaming services), and watch without restriction (save for android devices) and without ads.
     
  15. bareyb

    bareyb Under Maintenance TCF Club

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    Any of the minor inconveniences you mention with current DVRs would be completely eclipsed by forced commercials.
     
  16. CloudAtlas

    CloudAtlas New Member

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    I think everyone in this group is aware of the negative's of DVR's. But VOD in it's current implementation has it's own negatives:

    - FF/RW implementations range from terrible to somewhat acceptable.

    - some popular shows not available (CBS)

    - no one-stop service means multiple VOD apps (Netflix, HBOGo, ShowtimeAnytime, Hulu+, Amazon, Vudu, iTunes, cable VOD)

    Yes, iTunes, Vudu, Amazon, etc. all have $1.99/$2.99 HD episodes but who wants to pay $45 for a season of "Two and a Half Men?!" But yes, given enough money you can get VOD of any show ($495 for 11 seasons of THM).

    VOD is the future and with enough RAM/SSD hardware can buffer an entire episode/movie allowing perfect FF/RW.

    And some day a VOD service like Hulu+ will have every new show available for viewing. Maybe a pay extra feature to avoid commercials.
     
  17. jmpage2

    jmpage2 New Member

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    I agree. There's another issue too which is that although streaming quality has improved, it is still nowhere near as good (especially in the audio realm) as what we are currently getting in the way of OTA or CATV programming. CATV is not very good but at least it has "real" DD 5.1 for the better programming.

    By comparison, even though Netflix rates my connection as "the best" in terms of available speed, I still get over compressed audio in some programs that results in odd chirping noises, etc, through surround channels.

    Unfortunately people with 5.1 surround make up a small fraction of users and those with mid-fi level systems like mine an even smaller percentage (less than 1% I imagine) so even though we are willing to spend more on content the market will move in the direction that makes the most sense for mass adoption....

    That direction being "all you can eat" buffet services that for general programming will definitely have ads. Pretty much what you see now with Hulu+.

    Companies like Netflix and HBO and others who offer premium content commercial free won't be able to ignore the temptation of the ad revenue for much longer... certainly not after they've killed off DVR and BD distribution.

    If we are "lucky" what we'll be offered is a cheaper "all you can eat" option and a higher priced "opt out of ads" option, but based on what TiVo themselves have done with charging for a premium service AND pounding on us with annoying ads I would say that option is unlikely. The fact that Hulu+ charges AND has ads is the likely future direction... with a premium option to get the content through a premium service like iTunes or Amazon at a very high price per episode or season... not to mention you never actually own a backup copy of your shows.
     
  18. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    Maybe someone will come up with a S-DVR that can record a streamed program, than the problem would be solved.
     
  19. squint

    squint New Member

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    Streamed content is captured and shared on BitTorrent already. Ads are removed and it can be watched offline on, ironically, my TiVo.
     
  20. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    Completely, utterly false. When they get control back over the user experience (including no ad-skipping), it will be FAR worse. If you enjoy ads in exchange for watching whatever then sure, it will be better. But IMO the vast majority of Tivo users would not want to make that deal.

    And there's no way all TV content will be available at any time, they could do it now but content comes and goes with limited viewing windows now. What you're saying is going to happen is a fantasy because of business models, not technical reasons.
     

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