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Is AT&T an exempt cable company?

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Lyrical1, Feb 10, 2014.

  1. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Satellite isn't covered because they paid off people and got an exception. There are no technical reasons cable card security can not be used with satellite. Yes satellite requires different "tuners" than cable but cable card digital security could have been developed to be used on satellite digital streams, they just didn't want to go through the cost and effort of switching from their proprietary digital security.
     
  2. slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    That's what AllVid was all about and it was DOA after cable complained about the proposal and the FCC rolled over. But I'm not convinced the FCC has any legal authority to impose anything over sat and certainly not U-Verse so it probably doesn't matter anyway.

    They were pursuing a requirement that cable come up with an open access IP standard and I believe Verizon was supposed to be leading this effort to be delivered later this year. We'll see.
     
  3. kettledrum

    kettledrum Member

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    These are my beliefs as well. :(
     
  4. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    AllVid is not dead yet. After CES this year the AllVid alliance sent a letter to the FCC urging them to push forward with the standard. The head if the cable alliance responded saying that services like Netflix, Amazon, and Hulu were proof that competition could flourish even in an unregulated market. He also complained that AllVid would violate copyright, trademark and marketing agreements. :rolleyes:

    Even if the FCC pushes forward on AllVid it's going to be a decade before we see anything. And that's before all the extensions, waivers, etc... These guys don't want us to be able to buy equipment let alone equipment that is interoperable amongst providers and would give us the freedom to switch without consequences.
     
  5. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    This is true. Our only hope is that a competing big money/business pays off people for something more in line with what we little guys want. The CEA wants more open standards for the MPV sector because they want to be able to make and sell boxes that work with people's existing services. And companies like Google and Verizon are pushing against the established cable operators because they want to be able to sell their internet service to people stuck in a monopoly.
     
  6. tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Active Member

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    I'm sure that companies like Microsoft, Apple, and Samsung would love to have a universal standard. Samsung is big in Smart TV's now and they already sell a CableCard cable box replacement, and I'm sure they'd like a universal standard like AllVid to be able to sell that box to satellite and IPTV subscribers also.

    Microsoft (and Sony) would love it too. Just look at Microsoft's XBox One with its HDMI In port. AllVid would make things so much easier for the XBox to hook into your video services. And I'm sure Apple would love for their Apple TV to be able to do the same thing.

    So there are clearly some big money interests that will try to push for AllVid, but will it be enough? Only time will tell.
     
  7. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I've got my fingers crossed. :)
     
  8. JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    Unfortunately the trend is towards complete solutions top to bottom. In an IP world, it doesn't make sense for you to be tied to a video provider based on your geography, and all of the cable and satellite companies are building out IP-based apps for various devices that, for better or worse (mostly worse) they will pawn off as "viable alternatives" to their own set tops because you can use them on Xboxes and iPads that you buy. They completely miss the point (on purpose) that most of the reason people buy things like a TiVo or a Windows Media Center setup is the flexibility, and the alternatives in the UI, not necessarily the retail-ability of the hardware.

    Microsoft and Sony would much rather sell you content directly than simply sell you hardware that communicates with the cable or satellite companies. They might be on board AllVid and CableCard, but only so far as that's the only route they have right now. Everyone wants to be the cable company, even the CE companies.
     
  9. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Yeah they're still trying to force the "live TV" model on everyone, even though consumer interest is trending toward DVRs and on demand. They think that by releasing an XBox app that allows you to "tune" all your channels that's an alternative. And the worst part is the guys in power are likely to agree. :(
     
  10. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    DirecTV and DISH are idiots for not working with TiVo to do something like this. They have lost customers because of a lack of support for user-owned equipment.

    It seems to me that TiVo's hardware should be able to support U-Verse through Ethernet with a software update, and DirecTV and DISH through USB satellite tuners that could plug into a TiVo or Windows MCE computer.
     
  11. andyw715

    andyw715 Well-Known Member

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    Are cable boxes (their implementation of functions such as switching, ppv, on demand) regional?

    I wondered why TiVo never created specific boxes for Comcast, time warner, etc. ie Cell phones and carriers.

    Then they could sell those to the cable cos for rental
     
  12. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Yes the special stuff like that has to use equipment paired to the head end equipment. There are really only two variations, Cisco and Motorola, but they are different and would require different boxes.

    A few years back TiVo ported their software to run on Motorola hardware so that cable companies could deploy it on the equipment they already owned. Comcast tested it in a few markets but it never took off. TiVo also sells Premiere and Roamio units to smaller cable companies that use apps which work through the internet to support PPV/VOD stuff.* Although they still require tuning adapters as TiVos don't have the DOCSIS modem required to support SDV directly and it's not currently something that can be piped through the internet.

    * In a lot of Comcast areas you can access PPV/VOD through an app as well. It works by using a special head end server that allows TiVo to communicate with it over the internet.
     
  13. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    Most cable cos don't use SDV, so tuning adapters aren't required. However, if Comcast ever made the mistake of going to SDV, it seems to me that they should be able to use the existing VOD software and gateways in markets that have it to also do SDV. However, they would still need TAs for markets that don't have the VOD, or for MCE machines, and for the software method to work, they could have to make the VOD work reliably in the first place.

    There are cable boxes out there now, like the X1, that will work on either Moto or SA systems, not sure how that compares to a straight CableCard device. Maybe all the guide data and 2-way communication is through another system that is laid on top of both Moto and SA head ends?

    Comcast should sell TiVos, but they are invested in their own stupid X1 platform. It would be amazing if they had Comcast TiVos and worked with TiVo to add more features. At least they support more than is legally required for TiVo. It's a smart move to support TiVo as well as possible, as customers like me would have left for DirecTV if it weren't for TiVo and CableCard.

    The Comcast Motorola thing was weird, they sent a box with a remote in it. I don't think they ever ran it on whole-home capable hardware though... It also had 4 FF speeds, not 3 for some reason.
     
  14. JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    The Comcast VOD stuff couldn't be used for SDV if they implemented it. It's just not even close to being related to SDV or suitable for adaptation, especially since there are one way devices that they'd have to implement TAs for anyway.

    I suspect the X1 boxes do DSG (DOCSIS Set-top Gateway). I believe this is how TWC's new OCAP based Navigator/ODN software works since they are rolling out Samsung boxes. The Cisco/Motorola propriety primarily applies to two-way, since all of those boxes are legally required to have separable security, they can give you a Samsung box that uses DOCSIS for the return path and stick a cable card in that is appropriate to the system in use.
     
  15. Bigg

    Bigg Cord Cutter

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    Yes, they would still need TAs for MCE, and there probably would be one stupid guy somewhere using a CableCard slot in a TV, even though it's nonsensical use for CableCard. Their VOD system has two-way communication to allocate QAM channels, so some additional code should bridge it right over to SDV. It's just a matter of getting the right systems to talk to each other, and making it work reliably.

    The whole guide system is proprietary too- CableCard devices have to have their own guide, i.e. TiVo and MCE downloading it over the internet.
     
  16. JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    CableCard TVs are not compatible with Tuning Adapters (or, at least the vast, vast majority of them are not).
     
  17. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    That's mainly because they stopped making TVs with CableCARD slots before SDV and TAs really existed. Early on they made a buch of CableCARD TVs but they were typically $100-$200 more then an equivelent TV without CableCARD support, were a nightmare to get installed and didn't offer any support for VOD or PPV, so they were a total flop. TiVo only held on through the really rough parts because they offered a DVr that was better then most cable offerings at the time. Then they held on even longer by suing people and winning hudreds of millions of dollars. If TiVo hadn't of survived CableCARD would essentially be dead and cable companies would be pushing even harder for the FCC to let them ditch it.

    The ironic thing is these days with cable systems going all digital and requiring cable boxes for every TV in the house I think small CableCARD enabled TVs would actually sell well. Provided they were cheap enough and didn't carry a hefty premium like before.
     
  18. lessd

    lessd Well-Known Member

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    I have a cable card HDTV (I don't have a cable card in the TV as I am now using a TiVo for the signal) but when I did use the HDTV with the cable card you could not get any guide information so all you had was the ch. number, very hard to use, at least the non DVR cable box told you what was playing and the ch name.
     
  19. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Oh yeah, forgot about the guide. I never watch live TV so I forget people actually use guides. Although there are TVs going back 20 years that could pick up a free guide OTA, I wonder why they didn't use that?
     
  20. tarheelblue32

    tarheelblue32 Active Member

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    On the 1 TV that I still have just hooked up to the analog cable on TW, I also get the local broadcast channels in HD coming through in ClearQAM, and there is data on the current show (and I think the next show) that comes through that. I assume Time Warner embeds that info into the signal, so you should in theory be able to at least have guide data for what is currently on live TV on a TV with a cablecard slot.
     

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