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Increase in Recording Quality/Size in mid-December - across channels and Tivo's

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by lynnalexandra, Feb 3, 2013.

  1. morac

    morac Cat God

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    That's what it used to mean in the old SD UI, but on the Premiere HD My Shows a yellow dot is supposed to mean the show will be deleted within 3 days. The description even says so.
     
  2. innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

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    Aug 25, 2001
    Florida
    I don't think the dots change back though once it goes yellow which means it could stay on there for years as yellow if you never get close to 100%.
     
  3. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra Cable only

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    Ashland, PA...
    Should I ignore the delete date shown with the HDUI or can we all agree this area needs some work? If my yellow dot is gone tomorrow I'll let you know. Funny, but this show and two others are displayed by the Desktop program as having yellow dots with the exclamation point. After transfer they go to keep forever. Maybe I'll move something back and see if I can get a red dot.
    :)
     
  4. morac

    morac Cat God

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    I've had yellow dots change back to green after doing a reboot. Then again they weren't supposed to be yellow in the first place. ;)
     
  5. mattack

    mattack Active Member

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    Even though it SAYS that, it doesn't seem to me it really means that. Unless it really does mean "if I record everything in the To Do list and you don't delete ANYTHING in the meantime(*), this will be deleted in 3 days". But that seems to be a fairly confusing thing in a "simple" UI, IMHO.

    Though the other day, I was in the high 70s or low 80s of percentage, and lost recordings on my Premiere 4 for the first time in a VERY long time. I saw them there one minute, then a few minutes later there were some recordings gone.. Then the next day (actually the same day, since IIRC it was the middle of the night that I saw the issue), WITHOUT me deleting a whole bunch of shows, I saw it recording more suggestions..

    Basically, the free space calculation seemed to go "wacky" for a while, but it's been more sane the past few days.. I *have* gone back to more KUID recordings out of paranoia though. One show I have on my iPad mini, and the only other that I *know* I lost was the failed Munsters reboot.

    (*) which absolutely is the kind of "figuring" they do when determining if there is enough space if you have KUID recordings for example..
     
  6. morac

    morac Cat God

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    Mar 14, 2003
    NJ
    I haven't noticed any odd deletions on my Premiere and none of my recording show as yellow (including ones from over a year ago), but then I don't have any season passes set as KUID. They are all keep at most 5 or 10 episodes and keep until space needed. I also rarely mark shows in My Shows as KUID. I only have 2 marked as such now. The only time I saw shows turn yellow is when I had a week where I recorded a lot and didn't watch anything, I got up to 90% full and a number of items turned yellow. I then went on a watching bin and got the space down to 50% and eventually the yellow dots disappeared.

    The only reason the Premiere has to delete shows without running low on space is if the keep at most feature is used. I use that to keep the last 3 episodes of The Daily Show. Setting a season pass as KUID and keep at most "all episodes" is a good way to cause the Premiere to freak out trying to make room.

    To bring this back to the topic at hand. Another side effect of the Premiere over reporting recording size, is that when transferring shows to another TiVo, extra recordings may be deleted to "fit" the transferred show.
     
  7. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra Cable only

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    Ashland, PA...
    More data. Yesterday the yellow dot shown was to be deleted on 2/5. This morning the yellow dot has an exclamation point on it and it now is scheduled to be deleted 2/8. I guess it received a stay of execution. My usage has never exceeded 50% but my To Do List contains about 120% of my total storage.
     
  8. lynnalexandra

    lynnalexandra New Member

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    Apr 26, 2009
    Wow. I am so glad to get so many responses. These are so helpful.

    First - I am definitely recording digital sd channels. They have been all digital for a long time. The change to digital did not occur in December. This is definitely a Tivo software issues.

    Thankfully, your posts got me to double check those file sizes upon transfer. It was Tivo Desktop that was reading the files as 2100MB. and it reads it that way from the Tivo Elite, Tivo xl4 and Tivo premier (it is not reading those sizes from my Tivo HD).

    There had been a couple of files I transferred and edited - and somehow they were truly larger - so I hadn't thought to check further. But overnight I transferred 1/2 hour sitcomes from all three tivo's - where Tivo desktop read them as 2100MB. And I'm glad to report that all of them were more in the range of 500-600MB.

    I am tremendously relieved - bc. there are things we want to store - but don't have space to store them all in HD - and for sitcoms my daughter is watching for the fourth and fifth time, sd is just fine.

    My Tivo elite and xl4 have been in the 90-96% full range for a while now. In fact, I have wondered how it's not getting more full since I've recorded additional shows. I have also transferred and deleted some - but perhaps it's part of the size meter being wonky. I will keep a closer eye on it to make sure my shows don't get deleted (although I don't think they have yet).

    This brings up one further thing to research. After I edit out commercials - but continue to save as a .tivo file, when I transfer the show back to my Tivo, I wonder what size the Tivo will think it is. If it's registering the size correctly, that would be great. It would avoid my getting perilously close to full - and it means I can transfer back the edited shows so they are on my Tivo (we do want immediate Tivo access to some of these shows - others can be archived off the Tivo).

    It is not encouraging that the folks at Tivo seemed unaware of this problem, gave me two different answers (neither of which were correct) and have failed to follow up with me as promised.

    Thanks for everyone here.
    Lynn.
     
  9. dapoppa

    dapoppa New Member

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    Dec 31, 2006
    Tivo is aware of the problem since I called on the morning of 12/6/12. Here is my experience and what I have discovered over the past 3 months of dealing with this crap:

    Any size program under 2.0gb will be sized at 2.05gb, larger files/programs and of course the hd and digital stuff is larger as expected. On 12/6 I was using a 3 and a premiere. The premiere started sometime between 0000 and 0300 using 2.05gb for any file recorded. A 5 minute wx report, 30 min news/comedy, 60 min drama/show, 90 min, 120 min, all showed 2.05gb on the tivo and 2100mb on the tivo desktop.

    BEFORE the fall upgrade, a 30 min was about .39gb or so, 60 min was .78gb, 2 hrs was about 160mb, etc. All sizes proportional to the # of minutes recorded. Again, on the desktop it NOW shows 2100mb or larger depending on the size of the program before xferring to the computer. But always at least 2100mb, and of course this cuts by a factor of 5 the number of 30 min programs I can record.

    NOW here's the rub, when I xfer the files to my computer using the tivo desktop, they are reduced in size to the normal size it did before 12/6. All of them are reduced. The hd channels and some others do make bigger files but up to a 2 hr program is 2.05gb. Up to 5x larger than they should be on the tivo.

    INTERESTINGLY, when I xfer between the two tivos, the size is also reduced to the regular size, SO what I have to do now is xfer files from the living room to the family room, and xfer the same files from the fam rm to the liv rm so I have enough room to store all the programs w/o them being deleted by the tivo. So that starts my day, every day, xfer from liv to fam and a few hours later xfer the same ones from fam to liv. AND xfer from fam to liv and back liv to fam of the file recorded in the family room.

    Tivo knows about it and has told me they have no idea when this issue will be fixed, and after 7 inquiries by me, have basically said they know it is happening but don't seem to be too worried about it. By the way, my 3 burned out the hard drive in January, so I replaced it with a premiere and during installation, it installed the fall update, so both are doing the same thing. I had no way to stop the install of fall 12, so it made the liv and fam room ones the same, 2.05gb per prog or larger.

    I have tivo progs on 2 premieres, and 3 diff computers and 3 external hard drives and they are filling up and running out of space. Also, the fam and liv tivos do "see" each other 98% of the time, but it is a rare day when the computers can be "seen" by either tivo. Again, they are premiere series 4. So while I have all the shows on hard drives in my desk, they are there to stay since the tivos won't d/l them back to be view on the good tvs. I can watch them on the laptops and desktops, but my wife does not see the humor in that situation AT ALL.

    :mad::thumbsdown::confused::(

    I watch the d/l's to the computer and it goes 1%, 2%, 3% etc etc, but when it his 17% give or take on a half hour show, it jumps to done, and starts the next file d/l. On an hour show, it goes up to about 34% and jumps to done and starts the next file d/l, and on and on like that. The files so d/l'ed are perfect in every way, no loss of content. So somehow the xfer strips the files of the extraneous mbs and stores only the normal about 400mb, 800mb, 1200mb, 1600mb like it used to do. So go figure that out. I cannot obviously.

    I have been using tivo for ten years and this is an outrage. I have charter cable and can get free dvr's from them, free or $5 a month, cheaper than the tivos and if they burn out, they give me another. Room to room is there and there is little diff between and among the tivos and charter's dvr's. I have to waste an hour a day or more xfering files back and forth. I think, why not just move all the programming from liv to fam and only xfer them one time, one way, but that's a real pain also, and when they fix it, I would have to change them all back. Plus the 3 burned out, it was older, yes, but I am sure all the xferring was in part reason for its demise.

    I hope they fix this soon, att and charter both are vying for my business and it is becoming more and more tempting by the week. If I did not have lifetime on one of the premieres, I would have changed over already.

    I cannot believe more people have not complained about this, but maybe they just don't watch the file sizes nor do they use the tivo desktop, which is where I saw it at 0600 on 12/6 using 2100mb per program. C'mon tivo, you can do better...:mad:

    PS: There was ONE tech at tivo that knew about and heard about this issue and he was very helpful, and passed the issue higher up. I think he was the only one who believed me, the others, I had to explain it all to them and they were not aware of such a problem. I did get a final note from them that they do blame the 12/6 fall update, but had no idea when it would be fixed.

    Tivo 1 retired but still works 40hr
    Tivo 3 hard drive down retired 80hr
    2 Tivo premieres, series 4, 414hrs each, connected wirelessly to each other and to various computers. I do not use anything but basic quality, still have tube tvs in liv and fam rm.
     
  10. jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

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    Just a thought. Perhaps what is being reported is the space it takes up in the MFS media partitions. I know the drive itself is 512 byte blocks but the MFS system is different. This is speculation but perhaps it is akin to the cluster size we see in our computers. If the cluster size is 4k then any file size under 4k still takes up 4k of disk space but our computers report the actual size of the file. Maybe the tivo is reporting the cluster size that is being used by the video file and not the actual file size. When you transfer a file to a computer, the file size will be reported as the actual size but the free space removed from the drive will be a multiple of a cluster.

    Jim

    Sent from my SPH-L710 using Tapatalk 2
     
  11. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra Cable only

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    I think we can agree it's a reporting (display) issue. The effort to make the TiVo or the Desktop report the actual number of bytes is not so important. I agree, two different files should not share the same physical sector. The block or cluster size isn't an issue when the first size reported is 2.1GB and the last size reported is much smaller.
     
  12. lynnalexandra

    lynnalexandra New Member

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    I am really disappointed in Tivo. This is the type of ineptitutde - and waste of our time - that is more typical of Comcast. The fact that Dapoppa reported this to Tivo on Dec. 6 - and repeatedly after that - and only one tech person was familiar with the issue... that's really inexcusable. Once a bug has been found, it should be documented - and documented well enough that Tivo rep's can find this information when other customers call in with the same issue.

    I spoke with two tech's the first weekend in Feb. Neither had heard of this. The first did not bother to document my call. The second did - and gave me an incident number - and promised I'd get a follow up call. Of course I got no follow-up - except for their automated customer satisfaction survey - which I did fill out- expressing my discontent and again asking for follow up. Nothing.

    Having to transfer recordings to desktop, other tivo's - or anywhere - just to transfer back to get accurate file size readings is ridiculous. This is especially an issue if Tivo thinks the drive is full and starts to delete shows. For some reason, though, Tivo has not deleted my shows. My two Tivo elites (with 2tb drives) have been reading at about 92-94% full for a couple of weeks. I am continuing to record more shows than I am deleting - and the meter isn't increasing. I don't know why that is - but I'm glad I"m not losing shows - yet.

    I thought Tivo was now monitoring this forum. Be nice to hear from one of them on this thread.
    Lynn.
     
  13. jrtroo

    jrtroo User

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    Feb 4, 2008
    Tivo is officially monitoring THIER forum. Some individuals come here from time to time, but this is not the place to get a response.
     
  14. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra Cable only

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    Yes, it would be nice. I gave up on nice a while ago from any CE manufacturer. The deletion issue is strange too. I left a recording sit for two weeks. The "delete on" date would change on the deletion day. I got the Tivo (not Desktop) to finally show a yellow dot with the exclamation point. And then the date moved again. It's not a To Do List problem from what I can tell since I always have 120% of capacity on my list. Bugs are a way to keep programmers employed. At least that helps the economy. If it was perfect there wouldn't be a seasonal update. As you can tell, my expectations are low.
     
  15. mattack

    mattack Active Member

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    NOTHING is being reduced in size. It's simply a reporting issue.

    Tivo "says" the file is 2.05 GB. So when you download it, your downloading program of choice is showing you percentage AS IF THE FILE WERE 2.05 GB in size.

    But it ends when it really should end.. That's why the % download is wrong.

    I'm not saying this is good.. this is a fairly basic thing I'm surprised they got wrong, and I also wonder if this bad value is being used internally in the Tivo.. it *seems* to be since I've noted before that my Premiere 4 seems to "pre-delete" things for recordings a LOT more easily than my S3 or TivoHD has done.
     
  16. dapoppa

    dapoppa New Member

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    Dec 31, 2006
    Well, I understand your reasoning, but before fall update, actual kb, mb, gb were reported. Why on earth would they change the way actual usage is reported? And the tivo feels the extraneous bytes are used because instead of 414 hrs sd, I can barely get 200 hrs on each tivo. That's why I xfer them back and forth, to have room. Especially when I can seldom get the tivos to recognize the computers and allow d/l's from computer to tivo. The comps always see the tivos, but seldom the opposite is true since the update.

    Is anyone else have the same problem with the tivo not showing the comps on the my list page? I know the network is good and supports 2 smartphones, 2 tivos, a wireless printer, 2 laptops, 2 desktops in one direction only and a tablet.

    This update is the worst clusterbang they have ever come up with in my tivo history. I don't know if the 80 hour's demise cause a prob now leaving me all new technology when the old 40 and 80 hour tivos worked just fine. Now that the 80 hour is out of the loop, the two premieres do not seem to find the computers, none of the 4 in use. I dunno.
     
  17. mattack

    mattack Active Member

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    It's some kind of bug, I don't think there's any way this is intentional. I wonder if it's some kind of rounding issue. (something akin to rounding, at least)
     
  18. lynnalexandra

    lynnalexandra New Member

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    I've also had the issue of my Tivo not seeing my computer. When I called Tivo about it, they suggested switching to Beacon (and not bonjour). I don't remember the exact steps they walked me through - but basically there are options for Tivo Desktop to access the network with Bonjour or Beacon. (A while ago, I remember hearing that Bonjour was preferable if it works. And for a couple of years it worked fine. I don't recall why Bonjour was considered better).

    Once I changed to Beacon - and restarted Tivo Desktop, my Tivos do find my computer. A couple of times, either I reset it to Bonjour - or it just went back to Bonjour as a default. And for a while my tivos would see the pc - but at some point they stop - and I have to reset it to Beacon.

    I don't know if that will be helpful. And I don't know if that happened with the Fall update - but it was certainly around that time.

    Wildly inaccurate file size readings seems like a significant problem. I'll probably call them again at some point - but it's a pretty frustrating use of time.

    Lynn.
     
  19. JoeKustra

    JoeKustra Cable only

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    I agree Lynn. Yet the only time I can see a bloated file size is when selecting which file to transfer with the Desktop. Are there other places file sizes are reported wrong?
     
  20. morac

    morac Cat God

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    Mar 14, 2003
    NJ
    Select a show and press the info button. The wrong reported size is listed there.
     

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