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I'd like my lifetime service refunded and purchase price on my Series 1 refunded, pls

Discussion in 'TiVo Help Center' started by AntennaRocks, Dec 14, 2008.

  1. AntennaRocks

    AntennaRocks New Member

    Dec 14, 2008

    I have a Series 1 we use for OTA recording from the antenna - mostly just one channel - PBS. After the digital switch, I'd like to get the new schedule and just leave the Tivo on that one channel and record the shows for the kids. It would be nice to have the Tivo change the channels on the converter box as well.

    If Tivo can't manage to send the OTA schedule to me in February - then what?
    I guess at that point it would be pretty clear to me that Tivo lifetime service is really "lie" fetime service -- and you can't really trust Tivo...

    I've heard about these "upgrades" - but they all involve additional cost -- one of the reasons we went with a lifetime subscription in the first place. How about this? I'd be happy for Tivo to refund my full purchase price and 'lifetime' service agreement cost. After that, then we could talk about whether or not I would choose Tivo again for my entertainment system.
  2. wmcbrine

    wmcbrine Ziphead

    Aug 2, 2003
    For heaven's sake, it's a Series 1. How long have you had it already? I doubt that you haven't gotten your money's worth. And TiVo has always characterized the "lifetime" service as the lifetime of the box, not the customer. It could be reasonably argued that the Series 1 has reached the end of its lifetime with the digital transition, if it didn't pass it long ago.

    Now, I do wonder why TiVo felt they had to abandon the Series 1, to such an extent that they can't even provide updates for daylight saving time until an end user hacks it for them, much less add support for digital subchannels, which ought to be an easy fix. I agree with you: they should do it. But, to say that you deserve a full refund if they don't is silly.
  3. tgmii

    tgmii New Member

    Feb 21, 2002
    If you put one of the digital converter boxes, which the government is subsidizing, and you should be able to get for $20 or less, you should be ok. Especially in your one channel scenario.

    As far as the argument for EOL of the box, if Tivo has said "Life of the box", I think thats about said it... they should support codes for the converter boxes, etc. My series 1 is sitting in bottom of my closet, its soul (lifetime sub), ascended to my HD, so I'm not in the same situation.. but your solution is solvable with very little effort or expense.

    I think Tivo has served the community well, so "trusting" Tivo is a given at this point.

  4. wmcbrine

    wmcbrine Ziphead

    Aug 2, 2003
    No, tgmii, I don't think a box will be enough. He already knows about that, but he's complaining that the guide data won't work -- because it will all be for ATSC subchannels, which the S1 doesn't understand with its current software. I think some people have come up with workarounds, but they're not complete solutions.
  5. Adam1115

    Adam1115 20,000!!!

    Dec 15, 2003
    The government is the one mandating that Analog OTA be shut down, not TiVo.

    Why do you think it's TiVo's fault...? My VCR won't work after the cutover either, but I'm not pissed off at Sony...
  6. wmcbrine

    wmcbrine Ziphead

    Aug 2, 2003
    The transition was planned and known even before the first TiVo came out, IIRC (though not the exact date). Anyone who manufactured NTSC-only equipment after that time knew that it would become obsolete at some point.
  7. lafos

    lafos New Member

    Nov 7, 2004
    And some vendors are still selling analog-only tuners and TVs.
  8. kb7oeb

    kb7oeb New Member

    Jan 18, 2005
    In the one channel scenario configure the series 1 for cable and connect the converter box and remove all the channels except pbs, you will at least have guide data for that one channel.
  9. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural New Member

    Feb 2, 2006
    You're the first person I've run across in a long time that actually admits to still using a VCR.:D
  10. Adam1115

    Adam1115 20,000!!!

    Dec 15, 2003
    Well..... the other thing is that my VCR is newer than a series 1, but I bet a lot of people still use them? I don't have time to convert all of those tapes to DVD...
  11. jeepguy_1980

    jeepguy_1980 Unregistered User

    Mar 1, 2008
    The digital transition was mandated in 1997 and it was to be in full effect by Dec 31, 2006. But it was delayed until Feb 2009. Since you bought your box after 1997, you knew it wasn't going to last past 2006, yet it's still working. So in reality, you should have to back pay TiVo for the 14 months of service your box got.
  12. Turtleboy

    Turtleboy Active Member TCF Club

    Mar 24, 2001
  13. magnus

    magnus Tivo User

    Nov 12, 2004
    Technically, your Tivo would still work and Tivo would have had no way to have know in 1999/2000 that this would happen. And it could tune to local channels with ATT Uverse settings or some other guide data setting that is close. Obviously, you would not get any of the sub-channels but the main channels could be tuned to.

  14. magnus

    magnus Tivo User

    Nov 12, 2004
    I think the easiest way Tivo could do this would be to:

    1) Create a OTA HD lineup for S1 boxes (with 3 digit channel codes). This would be a server side fix and would not require code changes.

    2) Channels would be mapped to the order of
    331 = 33-1
    332 = 33-2
    333 = 33-3

    3) The boxes that currently work with the S1 would not be updated. Meaning that you would have to find an RCA box (and any others that are currently supported) for example to make this work.

  15. wmcbrine

    wmcbrine Ziphead

    Aug 2, 2003

    I'd expect manufacturers to be aware of the transition (since it's their business), but not most consumers (until recently), unless they were educated by the manufacturers. Which they weren't. So I do hold the manufacturers accountable for that... just not much, in the case of something as old as a Series 1.
  16. cdeckert219

    cdeckert219 technogeek

    Jan 7, 2006
    +1 :D
  17. steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

    May 1, 2006
    The OP has a Series 1 with lifetime.
    When was the lifetime purchased?
    Could it be eligible for the one time transfer to a new unit (assuming Tivo still honors that)?
    I forgot what the cutoff date was.
    The OP might not know about this.
  18. newskilz

    newskilz New Member

    Jul 11, 2008
    IIRC 1/21/2000 was the cut off date for the lifetime transfer at free or significant savings.

    Further more, I myself am using a Phillips S1 with lifetime and currently enjoying all of the normal shows via a converter box. It is true that without a lot of hacking, which I at this point do not want to try, you cannot get any sub-channels. However, you are not getting them now, so there is no loss there, and also what sub-channels do you really want anyway, most of the ones I get are just radar screens or live web cams and such? With the converter box, your S1 can continue to function and operate just like if it were still using analog over-the-air reception, the only difference is you are using an external tuner with IR blasters to control the tuner instead of the tuner in the box. And it will continue to operate just like it originally did way after the total switch over to digital broadcasting in Feb 2009.

    Part of what makes the converter box work is telling your TiVo that you are using a cable box, and the trick is finding a cable company in your area that has the same line up for the broadcasting channels so that channel 5 is really digital broadcast 5 etc. In this way, you can continue to get your scheduling info and watch any channel you get now on your S1 (assuming of course all of your local stations have to switch to digital)

    If there are any left, you can apply for and get the government coupon for a converter box, and then go buy one with a total out of pocket around $20? There are several threads on this site concerning various converter box models and how to use them with S1 and S2 models.

    Anyway, if you want to for $20 or so, and say 30 minutes of your time, you can get a converter box and record any show you want from any of the main channels until the S1 blows up, or the government changes things again. Effectively upgrading your S1 to be compatible with current technology, albeit unofficially and unsupported, but no hacking required unless as mentioned earlier you want to get sub-channels for some reason.

    Sorry if long winded, I went through the same thing and decided for now, it was way more cost effective to pay $20 and keep my S1 usable and keep all current usability than to pay for a new box. At some point obviously I'll want to upgrade but this way I have the choice as to when... and right now that when is not here- when I decide the price is right to buy and hopefully they offer a reasonable (In my mind) lifetime transfer fee, ie less than I can buy a NEW lifetime service at.

    I hope I was able to help some at least. Feel free to PM me if you think I can help you any more.

    On a side note: Personally,and this is obviously just my opinion; why are some people saying what they are saying? How is TiVo at fault at all for the S1 product becoming outdated? You buy a car or computer that becomes outdated and is understood as such when you buy it. Same for any product really, so not sure where anyone gets the idea at all that TiVo or some other company should have to keep supporting and upgrading a box made 5 years ago (or whenever the last S1 was made) The box did not become useless 6 months after purchase, but rather many years after the projected lifetime of the product. You bought product lifetime,as I did presumably, to make the long term cost cheaper for the box, eliminating any further service fees. And in TiVo's thinking you've gotten a great deal out of it because it is still working way beyond the projected time it was to work, and definitely past it's warrantly period. Reality is TiVo doesn't owe you or anyone else anything simply because you have been using the product for many years now and so if they were to do some sort of "refund" on the purchase it would have to be prorated out, which would mean no money to refund, just like a tire that was bought new and now has no tread left- it prorates to no money refunded. TiVo can't as a company keep all past units up to speed at minimal cost, it would make them bankrupt. They need to move newer units in order to make money, just like a car company. And so far that I've seen, TiVo has made several efforts to help those move on up to newer and better boxes by offering special prices and such;though I for one just haven't bit the bullet yet and put up that much money. Now, again this is just my personal thoughts and opinions, not trying to flame anyone or make anyone mad, just stating my viewpoint. Otherwise I'm trying to be helpful here.
  19. classicsat

    classicsat Astute User

    Feb 18, 2004
    It has been said already, by myself and Tivojerry even, that TiVo does not want to pull server side shenanigans to make Series 1s work with convertor boxes. Their solution is to offer upgrades to a TiVo HD, although not a free upgrade.
  20. lew

    lew Active Member

    Mar 12, 2002
    Tivo has a special offer for series 1 customers who are using an antenna. I don't know what that offer is so I don't know if the tivo is treating the OP fairly.

    Some of the previous posters have it reversed. Tivo has known for years the analog tuners would not be workable after the digital switch was thrown. Tivo had plenty of time to support an external convertor box. Conceptually this is isn't different then supporting a cable or satellite box. A few posters mentioned how tivo could make a server side change, and support at least some external converters.

    Tivo has decided it's not cost effective to support the number of customers in this position. I don't think the OP is entitled to a full refund but I think the OP is entitled to have his LS transferred for free and a deeply discounted refurbished box.

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