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I wonder what TiVo's got cooking for CES

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by bbrown9, Dec 20, 2013.

  1. Jan 7, 2014 #61 of 124
    atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Active Member

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    If TiVo decided to provide cloud storage to consumers as an add on, I think that would be great for many, even most people. However there are still some of us that do not have access to very good high speed Internet. My Frontier DSL is supposed to be 6 Mb/sec but there are plenty of times it drops to 1.5 or less and I end up with buffering SD content to the point I don't want to use it. Uploads is even worse absolute best is 1/3Mb/sec, so uploading anything of much size to the "cloud" is all but impossible.

    That said I really don't see why TiVo would do this on the consumer side without charging an extra monthly fee, which would turn off lots of people. Plus unless there is a major change in restrictions allot of content could not be copied to the cloud just like it can not be copied to another DVR or an iOS device now.
     
  2. Jan 7, 2014 #62 of 124
    MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

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    Yeah. But it will still ship and will be intolerably slow, buggy, and unreliable, and the fix will always be "real soon now" but "I can't wait for the new hardware that will fix this." Wash. Rinse. Repeat.
     
  3. Jan 7, 2014 #63 of 124
    bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    "Cloud DVR's" are all the rage at the moment and we are already seeing a number of solutions being paraded out during CES this year. And yes, you are correct - the solution is designed to make delivering the DVR service cheaper and contained.

    The price reduction will come with some forced advertising, limitations in flexibility and limitations in available space - but I suspect it is going to be very popular both as a service delivered by cable companies and as a retail option (whether TiVo offers it retails is beside the point).

    But - I disagree with you that offering some cloud space to current retail customers would bring no value. I am not talking about the cableco, I am talking about TiVo and, while it may be wishful thinking - cloud as a service has a use case.
     
  4. Jan 7, 2014 #64 of 124
    MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

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    What would knock my socks is a built in Microsoft Windows CE Media client that works as a UVerse interface.
     
  5. Jan 7, 2014 #65 of 124
    JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    Sure it has a use case, everything you can think of has a use case. But, there's not enough customers to make it profitable. Think of how few retail customers TiVo actually has, and then think of how high it would have to be priced for them to make money on it.

    That doesn't even make sense. TiVo boxes run Linux. Mediaroom is a wholly competing platform to TiVo.
     
  6. Jan 7, 2014 #66 of 124
    bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    Not unlike dropbox and other solutions - I would design the solution as offering a small amount of space as part of your service package and allowing you to increase that space for a fee. But, I do agree - they would need to find a way to generate revenue from the solution.

    TiVo hasn't let the restrictions on Comcast and others stop their development - what protected content would allow and wouldn't allow is open for debate, but I don't want to be held back because you have a crappy cable provider.
     
  7. Jan 7, 2014 #67 of 124
    bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    If TiVo were already developing the cloud infrastructure to support Cloud only retail and Cloud only CableCo DVR's then offering that service to full service retail and CableCo custumers would only add to the user base and economy of scale...

    TiVo will decide what makes sense for them. Either they will be correct or they will wither and die. But if Retail Cloud DVR's become a popular option (and I think they will) then TiVo can choose to compete or not. I think I have seen two retail Cloud DVR offerings from CES already, so to think this will only be a CableCo option is a little pessimistic in my mind.

    http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/7/52...ce-live-tv-dvr-and-video-on-demand/in/5042993
     
  8. Jan 7, 2014 #68 of 124
    tatergator1

    tatergator1 Active Member

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    This makes the most sense. This is strictly MSO-directed.
     
  9. Jan 7, 2014 #69 of 124
    bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    As I said, I do expect that TiVo is focusing on providing small MSO providers a turn key solution. And yes, Initially, this may be the entire scope of the effort. However, I do see value for TiVo in expanding that functionality and apparently others do as well.

    http://www.theverge.com/2014/1/7/52...ce-live-tv-dvr-and-video-on-demand/in/5042993

    Players like Sony are going after the retail market with cloud based DVR's. Must just be me (oh and Sony) that thinks cloud based solutions might generate revenue.

    If Sony is going to provide this service, how far behind can Microsoft with the Xbox One be?
     
  10. Jan 7, 2014 #70 of 124
    JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    What retail cloud DVRs are you talking about? I think you are mistaken about the architecture of how the TiVo cloud DVR would work, how current cable company provided cloud DVRs work, and how the Sony "Internet TV" service will work.

    Current cable company network DVRs and the proposed TiVo network DVR would work this way: The network streams are recorded at the cable company's datacenter and recorded to servers in their datacenter. Not TiVo's datacenter or whatever other vendor they use. The nature of cable means that this cannot be a "universal" service run by TiVo on TiVo's servers in their datacenter. Now, they would surely have supporting network services that still run on their servers, but the DVR portion would, by the virtue of how the content licenses work, HAVE to be run individually by each cable company.

    Additionally, the programs would be delivered to you via the cable company's private network. It would not transit the public internet. Imagine if everything you recorded and watched went over the internet. With most cable companies imposing caps, this would be untenable. This is another reason a retail TiVo cloud DVR would not work.

    So, building this and releasing it to cable companies doesn't mean they can just also release it for retail customers. As a matter of fact, it means that they specifically could not offer it to retail customers.

    The only way any "cloud" DVR service would work for retail customers would be for your TiVo to record the program locally, and then upload it back to TiVo's servers. If this is the architecture they've picked, then TiVo is going out of business. If it's not, then there is no way to offer it to retail customers.


    The difference, though, is that these services are all licensing the content. The only way for TiVo to compete, in the retail space, would be to license content and bypass the cable companies entirely, which is what Sony and Microsoft are doing. TiVo isn't likely to go down that route
     
  11. Jan 7, 2014 #71 of 124
    Hercules67

    Hercules67 TiVo addict

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  12. Jan 7, 2014 #72 of 124
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    We have a big loss with cloud type service no matter how delivered, we have a loss of control, ads can be inserted and like a BD player you may be restricted from fast forwarding them like trying to fast forward the FBI warning on a BD disk, and getting the message operation not allowed.
    For me no thanks.
     
  13. Jan 7, 2014 #73 of 124
    bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    Nice article, it definitely helps define the intent of the product.

    I said several times that I was aware that TiVo was directing this toward the Cable Co’s, my point was and still is that the technology could bleed over to the retail services. Now that may mean that TiVo offers the service or it may mean that your CableCo may offer the service.

    It may also mean that the service will never come to the retail TiVo, but I suggest NEVER is a very long time and Cloud as an add on service has value.
     
  14. Jan 7, 2014 #74 of 124
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Yes it's directed toward the cable companies, it's really the only thing tha makes sense. When I used my BoxeeTV, that was a cloud based DVR. Of course it's not around any more but it certainly worked.
     
  15. Jan 7, 2014 #75 of 124
    Hercules67

    Hercules67 TiVo addict

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    The thing about CLOUD BASED SOLUTIONS....

    1. I hate "On Demand" but have had to use it in the past to "catch-up".
    2. I hate ads, so skipping them is essential for me, can I do that with cloud based storage?
    3. How clunky is the interface?

    If one 1-3 are answered.... Maybe. I think we should look at this in a positive light. TiVo is trying to enhance their revenue stream, in order to support all their products, including the ones we SO love.
     
  16. Jan 7, 2014 #76 of 124
    JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    But it specifically can NOT be offered by TiVo directly to consumers because of the way it works. It REQUIRES that the cable company operate the storage backend and that the DVR software be running in the cable company's system.
     
  17. Jan 7, 2014 #77 of 124
    spaldingclan

    spaldingclan Member

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    I'm OTA Roamio anyway so this matters nothing to me
     
  18. Jan 7, 2014 #78 of 124
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    There are two reasons MSOs want cloud based DVRs...

    The main reason is they can offer DVR as a service without having to upgrade the users equipment. The DVR essentially becomes a VOD channel. The cost of the individual boxes become cheaper, they can convert customers without having to send out techs, and they don't have to deal with all the costly DVR equipment and potential failures.

    The other reason is it offers them control. With cloud based DVRs they have complete control over all aspects of the DRM and can even insert custom ads and/or prevent you from skipping the ads.

    When these services become available most people will just accept them because they don't know any better and it'll make their bill cheaper. Eventually the MSOs will use it as an excuse to stop supporting CableCARDs and we'll be stuck with this as our only option for DVRs. :(
     
  19. Jan 7, 2014 #79 of 124
    JosephB

    JosephB Member

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    I think MSO-developed applications for multiple devices will be the death knell for the retail initiative. The FCC has always shown a lack of understanding when it comes to the fact that it's not just that we want to buy our boxes instead of renting from the cable company, it's a diversity in UX (which that diversity in UX is exactly what the MSOs want to kill, they hate that worse than the lost STB rental revenues)
     
  20. Jan 7, 2014 #80 of 124
    tomhorsley

    tomhorsley Active Member

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    I don't suppose they'll announce android streaming at CES?
     

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