1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

I hate, hate, HATE the updated Netflix app!!!

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by escrge, Aug 22, 2012.

  1. Oct 8, 2012 #81 of 227
    lujan

    lujan Member

    418
    0
    May 24, 2010
    I didn't care for it. Only improved picture very nominally. Will be sending mine back. Also, TV kept finding a new device and causing the 3D settings to be disabled.
     
  2. Oct 8, 2012 #82 of 227
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

    2,389
    2
    Jul 10, 2004
    San Diego,...
    Keeping the native framerate is the special part, allowing them to be displayed without pulldown motion artifacts on monitors with a factor-of-24 refresh rate which handle 24p correctly. Some people want this because they're extremely sensitive to judder.

    I don't know whether any of the devices I listed have native resolution output or not. The only one that I own is a Panasonic DMP-BDT220 and it does not. Native resolution is problematic when watching video from an adaptive bit rate streaming player. If you always get a connection to a server which stays steady and never develops conditions where it would drop out of 1080p temporarily, then you'll get the one video hiccup as it climbs up to 1080p and never again, which is probably tolerable.
     
  3. Oct 8, 2012 #83 of 227
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    19,173
    21
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    I'm using a couple of them and have been very pleased with the results on my Sammy LED DLP RPTV and my Sammy LCD TV.

    For the past five years I had used an Algolith HDMI Flea in my main setup to reduce some of the noise from broadcast sources. With the Darblet I have it set at 42% which seems to be a good compromise in detail and noise for me. There is a nice improvement in perceived detail from both my HDTVs.

    And they were only around $270 each which is a steal for what it does. My FLEA cost almost $1K five years ago and I could only use it with my broadcast sources since it can't handle above 1080P24.

    The Darblet has no issue with 1080P60. I've used it with broadcast sources, streaming sources, BD sources, home made videos, and gaming sources. All with very good results. I had read the reviews of it and was skeptical, but was pleasantly surprised with the results. All this without ringing being added to the picture and without a bunch of video delay added either.
     
  4. Oct 8, 2012 #84 of 227
    tre74

    tre74 Member

    95
    0
    Nov 11, 2010
    Made some tweaks. I set the AVR to pass all video inputs with no conversion and this fixed the 1080p 24fps flickers from the TiVo. Any flickers that occur now are from stream lag and not from the AVR. The Samsung Plasma does as good a job of upscaling as the AVR.
     
  5. Oct 9, 2012 #85 of 227
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

    2,389
    2
    Jul 10, 2004
    San Diego,...
    What's "stream lag"? I've (very rarely) seen some of these adaptive bit rate players stop and rebuffer for a few seconds and then resume playing the same high bit rate encode. Inasmuch as it should never do that (instead, smoothly switching to a lower bit rate encode before it comes near to running out of content to play) it's a bug--avoiding stops to rebuffer is the entire point of adaptive bit rate streaming.

    How often does whatever you're calling "stream lag" happen?
     
  6. Oct 10, 2012 #86 of 227
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    19,173
    21
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    No idea what stream lag is but I never have my buffer run out. Any issues I see is from the resolution chnage.
     
  7. Oct 10, 2012 #87 of 227
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

    2,389
    2
    Jul 10, 2004
    San Diego,...
    When this weirdness occurs I'm pretty sure that the buffer hasn't actually run out, since the buffering progress bar comes up for only a few seconds; I've measured the buffer on some devices (by unplugging them from the network and timing how long they continue to play) and they're mostly a 1 to 1.5 minutes or so. It'd take a lot longer than a few seconds to fill a buffer of that size with 5.2 Mbps content (Netflix 1080p+5.1 sound). It's definitely some sort of bug. Again, I've only very rarely seen it happen.

    I've googled "stream lag" and the term has been used to describe a phenomena people have experienced with Yahoo, wherein the video blanks out for a few seconds while the audio continues. Who knows what causes that; I've never seen it.
     
  8. Oct 10, 2012 #88 of 227
    tre74

    tre74 Member

    95
    0
    Nov 11, 2010
    Poor choice of words, I suppose. I was talking about the loss of video quality that occurs from time to time. The audio remains fine, but the picture will, for a few moments, look very pixelated until the quality gradually returns to normal. It doesn't stop at any time. It could be the TiVo or the router.
     
  9. Oct 10, 2012 #89 of 227
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

    2,389
    2
    Jul 10, 2004
    San Diego,...
    That's normal--it happens because the player detects that its buffer is draining, meaning that under current conditions it's not able to stay ahead of the stream. When that happens it asks the server to start sending it a lower-bit-rate/lower-picture-quality version of the video stream; when it detects that things have improved it asks for a higher-bit-rate/higher-picture-quality video encode. That's adaptive bit-rate streaming (aka ABS), as opposed to the old let-the-buffer-run-dry-then-pause-to-buffer-a-lower-bit-rate-encode-and-never-go-back strategy. Those pauses to re-buffer are very disruptive and frustrating, generally thought to be much worse for the viewing experience than a momentary decrease in picture quality. When ABS works well, it's like watching the focus of a camera sharpen and soften.

    Try playing "Example Short 23.976", a test clip with a text overlay stating bit-rate and resolution burned into each of its video encodes; it lets you see this process in action.
     
  10. Oct 11, 2012 #90 of 227
    tre74

    tre74 Member

    95
    0
    Nov 11, 2010
    Played this clip. My TV is not a fan of frame rate changes and goes black for a moment and then comes back on and displays the new resolution and frame rate in the upper left corner. Oh, and this is one corny clip. The guy moonwalking while holding a laptop, lame!
     
  11. Oct 11, 2012 #91 of 227
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

    2,389
    2
    Jul 10, 2004
    San Diego,...
    The frame rate never changes, just the resolution; the frame rate of the video is always 24p (or 23.976p, if you prefer :)); it's not part of the information displayed. If you have 720p and 1080p enabled in your TiVo output format setting, the player will change resolution formats to 720p60 and 1080p24 when it gets to the 720p24 and 1080p24 encodes. Multiple output formats selected doesn't work at all well with adaptive bit rate streaming; IMO the TiVo Netflix player should choose the highest selected format lower than 1080p24 (720p or 1080i) and go with that, converting everything Netflix sends to that one format on output. Maybe the .0001% of people using fancy outboard scalers benefit from its ability to output 1080p24, if they additionally always get a connection to Netflix's servers which gets up to 1080p24 and stays there, but TiVo's inability to convert anything else into 1080p24 means that it has to switch formats if the player's forced to back down into a 720p encode and when it switches back, causing visual ugliness in probably most every television set up. This is confusing and detrimental to everyone who's chosen to set their TiVo to output native formats.
     
  12. Oct 11, 2012 #92 of 227
    tre74

    tre74 Member

    95
    0
    Nov 11, 2010
    Thanks for the info. Still, my TiVo is a slow learner. Initially, the stream starts out at 720p 60, or 1080i 60, depending on my settings. Moments into the stream there is a switch over to 1080p 24. I'd just like it all to be sorted out before the video begins. I've restarted the same video many times over and the change in frame rate occurs at the exact same moment each time. Still, the resulting image and Dolby Digital Plus audio are nice. I recommend watching "Dreamworks Holiday Classics." Check out "Dragons: The Gift of the Night Fury." That is one gorgeous image!
     
  13. Oct 13, 2012 #93 of 227
    Big_Craig

    Big_Craig New Member

    3
    0
    Oct 5, 2012
    Cedar...
    Does anyone else have issues with the DD+ audio not playing? Sometimes when I start netflix movie on my premiere with DD+ audio, I will get no audio at all. Actually this happens pretty often. I have to back out to the menu and start the movie again. Then it will work. I've had the audio drop out after fast forwarding too. I have my tivo connected to a Yamaha RX-V673 via HDMI.
     
  14. Oct 14, 2012 #94 of 227
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    19,173
    21
    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    The issue I've had is that it is inconsistent for the type of audio. The same title might play 5.1 DD one time and then the next time 5.1 DD+ from my TiVos. While any title played back with my Roku 2 in 5.1 is DD+.
     
  15. Oct 14, 2012 #95 of 227
    mikeyts

    mikeyts Stream Warrior

    2,389
    2
    Jul 10, 2004
    San Diego,...
    Now that is strange. I've never seen anything other than DD+ for 5.1 channel sound come out of the TiVo Netflix player.
     
  16. Oct 14, 2012 #96 of 227
    PlanoEvo

    PlanoEvo New Member

    6
    0
    Oct 14, 2012
    Okay this is BS I shouldn't have to buy extra crap to make the premiere stream 1080P when my Roku does it just fine. Yes I have enough bandwidth 35/35 and yes I can see the difference between 1080i and 1080p you just need a large enough screen which I have 73 Mitsu DLP. Also when the premiere starts to stream a 1080p title the stupid TiVo ramps up res starting at very poor then settles at 1080p only to run fine at that output the switch back and forth to 1080i missing up to 10secs at a time. Total nonsense I am going to call TiVo and complain again...
     
  17. Oct 14, 2012 #97 of 227
    compnurd

    compnurd New Member

    1,011
    0
    Oct 6, 2011
    you do that!... Let us know how it goes!

    I also dont see how you need to buy extra "crap" to make the premiere stream 1080P it does it on it's own
     
  18. Oct 14, 2012 #98 of 227
    PlanoEvo

    PlanoEvo New Member

    6
    0
    Oct 14, 2012
    Seriously this is a major flaw! Why can't it stay on 1080p which looks awesome I'll admit but switching back and forth is nonsense.
     
  19. Oct 14, 2012 #99 of 227
    compnurd

    compnurd New Member

    1,011
    0
    Oct 6, 2011
    I dont have the issue. Dont know what it is about my connection. I ramp up to 1080P and it stays
     
  20. PlanoEvo

    PlanoEvo New Member

    6
    0
    Oct 14, 2012
    talked with TiVo and they told me to netflix. netflix told me to reset netflix app then power off TiVo then router and power up. Their (netflix) opinion was that the TiVo is much more picky with streaming so reseting seems to help most people. However I am still not happy about the ramping up resolution which sucks!
     

Share This Page