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How do you connect your Tuning Adapter?

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by yoheidiho, Jun 28, 2013.

  1. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    That rules out the signal strength, both Forward and Return data channels.

    You didn't mention the SNR, If it is below 35 that MAY be an issue, but it should still work.

    The signal strengths are in the "sweet spot", so I'd leave things hooked up as they are (unless you remove them temporarily).

    Even if a TA has been provisioned, you can ask that they be re-provisioned, just like you can do with a Cable Modem that is provisioned, has been working fine, then starts acting up...

    They can also troubleshoot the TAs remotely, as they communicate in both directions, unlike a cablecard (which they can't view the status of remotely). They can also get a read on what the blinking light means. They also could see that my units were in brick mode (Cox).
     
  2. jon96cobra

    jon96cobra Member

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    May 24, 2006
    Northern VA
    As of this morning the flashing has stopped. I have all channels again.
    Now I'm just waiting to see if this adapter stays connected. Tired of getting partial shows. At least for now its up and working again. I need this ready to go for football season.

    Thank you for the links for the flashing light.

    Could not find the SNR
    FDC -2 dBmV
    RDC 32 dBmV
     
  3. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    You know how TiVo has a CableCard menu screen, where you can view many screens of data from the CC, which is a whole different screen from DVR Diags? Another one gets added for your TA that reads many screens of info from the TA. The SNR is in there. It just takes going through a few screens to find it.

    Your currently posted (updated) signal levels are still excellent. However, you can have excellent signal levels (strengths), but if your SNR isn't in range, it won't matter how excellent the rest is. SNR is Signal to Noise Ratio. The more noise (ingress/interference) the lower the SNR. Too much noise equals low SNR, and it can cause problems.

    If you still can't find it, let us know, and one of us will guide you step-by-step.
     
  4. jon96cobra

    jon96cobra Member

    73
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    May 24, 2006
    Northern VA
    Found the SNR yesterday while going through all the menus for Diagnostics and found it at 38db. I checked tonight and its 35db.
     
  5. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    That is also very good. TiVos seem to have issues (sometimes) with SNR above 36 (which makes no sense, because if they define SNR the same as everybody else, it just means a cleaner signal). However, the TA isn't the TiVo, and should be very happy with it at 38. Even 35 is well within the sweet spot (for both).

    At which screen did you pull the SNR from (just to be thorough, since it should be available from a few menus)?

    So, I'm seeing no signal or SNR issues. Cox can see all this from their end, and if you call, they should be able to tell you what values are being reported back.

    If you experience any further issues, check the same values at the time of the problem.
     
  6. jon96cobra

    jon96cobra Member

    73
    0
    May 24, 2006
    Northern VA
    Thanks for helping me out. The SNR is on the DVR Diagnostics screen. Also give your signal strength which mine is 89 to 90 % which isn't bad since I'm going though 2 splitters.
     
  7. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
    0
    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    That's good as well. If it were pegged at 100 all the time, on all channels, that would be a sign of a signal that may be too strong for your TiVo to operate properly with (just the TiVo, as the TA has a better threshold).

    Note: On Premieres, as of the last update, they "broke" the DVR Diags screen, and the readings will stop updating in near-realtime, as they should. Some variations of the Premiere are affected, others are not. If you see a minor fluctuation in the readings, and it keeps fluctuating, then you are not affected. If it stops fluctuating, then you are affected, and a reboot is required to get another shot at getting realtime readings.

    Note 2: The readings you are getting at the DVR Diags screen are ONLY what the TiVo's tuners are receiving. You still need to go to the TA menus and find the reading there to know, for sure, exactly what the TA is receiving. Cox can also read that info, since the TA communicates both directions (unlike the cablecard, which can ONLY receive data, when used in any retail device, like TiVo. Cable provider boxes have the same cards, but can communicate both directions). If you call and ask, they can tell you exactly what the TA's readings are.
     
  8. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

    3,652
    2
    Feb 28, 2001
    North...
    Not true for the cablecards at all, and never has been (though in the very early days it was thought so). There isn't any way for the TiVo to tell the cablecard anything to pass along to the cable company head end, so not two-way in that sense, but the cablecard itself can send its status along to the head end upon request.
     
  9. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Well, this is a TiVo forum, a TiVo related thread, and I'm answering a TiVo related post. All you are really doing is pointing out a "technicality" or more so an "absolute", that I already knew. So, you're really only agreeing, but apparently felt the need to be one of those "absolutes" types, that just have to waste space at any opportunity that presents. This will be the only rise you get from me in this thread, on this subject, so enjoy it.

    So, since we are talking absolutes: Cable boxes from a provider have the same cards, but they can operate in two-way mode and then the provider can read them, since they communicate both ways. It was a gov't mandate that cablecards in retail equipment only communicate in one direction. I know there is no such thing as a one-way card. It just becomes unable to do two-way in retail equipment, so it's often mistakenly called a one-way card. It detects the device it is in and boots into "slow boot mode", which is another way of saying it boots into one direction communication mode, which takes longer. No retail device has ever existed, or currently exists that can use a cablecard in bidirectional mode. So, why even bring it up (please, don't answer, I already know). We're talking TiVo here, not the whole world and all scenarios.

    So pat yourself on the back for making a correction that I point out as unnecessary/irrelevant in paragraph one. It's people that just have to be "absolute" about everything that make this forum more bickering than APPLICABLE INFORMATION about TiVos, which makes threads that could be hundreds of posts long, tens of thousands of posts long. If this was DSLREPORTS, or some other forum, that isn't a TiVo specific forum, I'd have included the extra info. I was trying to keep it short and concise for the person I was replying to. No offense to him, but he seems a bit of a novice at finding what he's looking for, that is applicable, and I didn't want his eyes to glaze over by posting all the extra you and I just did.

    EDIT/ADD: I updated the post you quoted to make it more acceptable to the "absolutes" types.
     
  10. CrispyCritter

    CrispyCritter Purple Ribbon Wearer

    3,652
    2
    Feb 28, 2001
    North...
    Sorry, it's still wrong. The cable company has complete two-way communication with the cablecard, independent of the device it is in. (It does not have communication with the TiVo through the cablecard, which is why tuning adapters are needed, for instance).

    In other words, the cable company can determine the status of the cablecard in exactly the same way as it can determine the status of the TA. With a well-setup system and a trained representative, the rep can send a pairing signal to my TiVo cablecard and the cablecard will respond that it has been received and the rep can tell me that (and has done so with me a couple of times.)

    I agree with you that the provider can determine the status of their own cable boxes, and they can't determine the status of the TiVo itself (no communication standard there, despite several attempts). However, they can determine the status of the cablecard itself remotely, and have always been able to, contrary to your statement:

     
  11. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Nope, wrong. The provider can send pairing signals to the card, as well as EMMs (or addressable box hits). They could also send a signal that revokes the card's authorization. No communication back to them is required to do any of this. Still, a cablecard can't send anything back (in a TiVo or other retail device), though.

    Here's how you prove it: Take a PICO filter that blocks all signals up to ~58MHz, which covers the RDC (Return Data Channel) range, connect it to a cable provider box and see what happens. It may not happen right away, but in a pre-set amount of time the card will self de-authorize, until the filter is removed (because it is blocking the RDC). This is how people used to get free PPV and other cable services, but it doesn't work anymore. Now, put that same filter on a TiVo, or other retail device, and it will go on working forever. Can Cox tell it is even there? NO. There's no RDC, so the only thing the filter is doing is blocking stray upstream (RDC) signals, or those from your cable modem from getting past it (which is why some techs will install them on devices without a RDC, or on a device that they detect is egressing noise in that spectrum into the cable, throughout the house, and if bad enough, into the main system). Some people religiously use these on any device without a RDC, and find they get less interference on their low frequency channels.

    IMPORTANT NOTE: PICO filters must not be used in a Tuning Adapter setting, unless they come AFTER the TA, since the TA DOES have an upstream (RDC). If placed before a TA, the TA will de-authorize either immediately, or after a pre-set period.

    If you post everything some cable rep tells you as fact, be prepared to find yourself being corrected by many others who actually know the facts (since what somebody told you, which was incorrect, is what you base your argument on). Do some fact-finding research, before preaching false gospel, please.

    I've been told so much fiction by those idiots at Cox, if I went around repeating it, I'd come across as the village idiot. Many of them couldn't find their own backside with both hands tied behind it. If Cox is telling you they are reading the status (signal strength, SNR, etc.) from the cablecard in your TiVo, they are full of it, or don't know what they are looking at. The only status they can know about your cablecard is what they have RELATED TO YOUR ACCOUNT. As in: How many cards, the serials, what HOST/CC ID they have in the system from the last time they were GIVEN the pairing data either by you or a tech, which must be read from the TiVo screen, and given to them via PHONE, or advanced online activation services, where you type that info in. It can NOT be read from the card itself over the cable network. That would require the missing upstream (RDC) on a TiVo or other retail device. If you lose your pairing, the cableco system will not pick that up. Their system will show you as paired, until you either call in and ask them to do an un-pair/re-pair, or discontinue service with that card, by returning it to them. If they say "our system is showing your cablecard as paired", that only means it was paired, and the relevant data is in their system. It doesn't mean they are "reading" your actual cablecard itself. They CAN'T. It can sound like they are, but they aren't. They are blind, except for the data from the initial, or last time the card was paired, which, again, is part of your ACCOUNT PROFILE.

    End point: THERE IS NO RETURN DATA CHANNEL (FROM THE CABLECARD) WHEN A CABLECARD IS INSTALLED IN A TIVO OR OTHER RETAIL DEVICE. PERIOD.

    P.S. The title of this thread is "How do you connect your Tuning Adapter?". I said I wouldn't give you another rise, but you are posting false information.
     
  12. jon96cobra

    jon96cobra Member

    73
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    May 24, 2006
    Northern VA
    As of this week now I got an error on my tivo about the cable card Error 613 have the tech out now and EMMs is 0. Going to swap out the card since I lost channels again.
     
  13. MeCouchPotato

    MeCouchPotato New Member

    7
    0
    Apr 16, 2003
    I go through these Cisco 1520 Tuning Adapters (I have 3 of them) like they are candy. They seem to have a life span of 6-8 months before they start dumping channels and need to be rebooted weekly.
     

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