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How Chromecast Could Jumpstart TiVo’s Retail Ambitions

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by sbiller, Jul 26, 2013.

  1. Grakthis

    Grakthis New Member

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    The audio is as good as anything else I watch on my bedroom TV. I haven't hooked it up to a receiver yet. Presumably, if you want 5.1, you'll have to hook it up to a 5.1 receiver.
     
  2. Grakthis

    Grakthis New Member

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    If you don't use DIAL, it defeats the point of having an open protocol. I don't want to have to launch a TiVo app to do this. I want to do it from inside of netflix.
     
  3. Fofer

    Fofer XenForo Rocks! TCF Club

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    Agreed. A large part of their mistake came from deciding to have the OS be so internet-centric, getting dynamic content (and advertising :thumbsdown: ) on-the-fly from the cloud. Not to mention the pathetic performance of Adobe AIR and Flash on these boxes. Not to mention how long it took them to activate the second core.

    I've all but decided that my TiVo Premiere (2-tuner, with 2TB HDD) will be the last TiVo hardware I ever buy. I was happy when the TiVo Stream came out (their iPad app was the last good thing to come out from this company, and I'm pretty certain they'd outsourced it.) Their announcement that the TiVo Mini would only work on 4-tuner Premieres (because they couldn't figure out dynamic tuner allocation) was the straw that broke this camel's back.

    I do think TiVo still has the best DVR platform, in terms of overall user friendliness, stability and reliability, but their lead is fading fast. More importantly, I am not watching enough broadcast TV these days to counterbalance my constant disappointment with their innovation and tech initiatives. Every thing they've done beyond simple DVR'ing (specifically with relation to "one box" web video handling) had been a tremendous DUD. And these days, those are the areas that are actually important to most tech-savvy audiences!

    Video podcasts, internet webisodes, streaming, flinging and casting, downloads on demand, and all that jazz -- that's what I'm interested in. And TiVo has proven to be the worst at all of it.
     
  4. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    They release an updated version with 4 tuners instead of 2, same CPU but pretty much everything else is different. Seems to be about equivalent to XBox revisions.

    And when running the old UI the S4 is significantly faster then the S3. Also transfers between TiVos and TiVoToGo are significantly faster. The bottle neck in the S4 platform is the HDUI. If you compare apples to apples then the S4 is a major improvement over the S3.
     
  5. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    If the HDUI runs as well on the next gen hardware as it does on the Mini, and it should, then I think TiVo will really be back in the game. Although they need to work out app deals with content providers like HBOGo and VUDU if they want to make good on that whole "one box" thing. Throwing in a DLNA client wouldn't hurt either.

    There is a pretty reliable rumor going around that dynamic tuner allocation is being beta tested right now and should come out this fall. I wonder if they'll remove the 4 tuner limitation on the Mini when that hits? Will be an interesting development if it does.

    Dan
     
  6. Fofer

    Fofer XenForo Rocks! TCF Club

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    Yeah, the HDUI has gotten a tiny bit faster (maybe that's the 2nd core) but it's still got lag and is annoying to use. And BTW, it is *still* not complete! What a joke.

    Why would the HDUI slow down transfers between TiVos and TiVoToGo? You'd think that was all handled underneath that particular UI layer.

    They've made some horrible decisions with this.

    I think I'm going to switch back to the SD UI tonight. And use the iPad app for as much as control as possible. After what I've been through, it'll probably feel like my TiVo got an upgrade of greased lightning. :rolleyes:
     
  7. innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

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    I wonder if they would bother to remove it though since based off the rumors so far there is no mention of a 2 tuner series 5.
     
  8. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    In hindsight it is fairly clear what TiVo should have done. The Premiere should have been released in the fall of 2009 with only the SDUI and billed as a performance upgrade to the TiVo HD. They then should have continued to worked on the HDUI until it was functional and they were ready to release a 4 tuner model (Fall of 2011?) and done a hardware refresh at the same time to something that met flash specs.

    Woulda Coulda Shoulda
     
  9. Fofer

    Fofer XenForo Rocks! TCF Club

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    My hunch is that it'll come out and work great with 4-tuner Premieres only.
    And true to form they will disappoint (yet again) by not making it available to 2-tuner Premieres. After all, they never said the Mini would work with those models, why bother backtracking and changing that caveat? They'd rather folks buy new hardware anyway.

    That particular announcement is what I am hinging my own TiVo future on. I'd love a Mini for my office. And I refuse to replace my 2-Tuner Premiere with a 4-Tuner Premiere just for that. I never have tuner conflicts, I don't even record that much content these days.


    I'll believe it when I see it. Not only would these apps be welcome, but TiVo needs to figure out how to make the user experience pleasant. What they have now is anything but.

    Chromecast (DIAL) support would be a nice thing to see, too. And wouldn't need any "front-facing" UI from TiVo. Their current "Flingo" implementation is a sad joke, when compared to what we're already seeing from the $35 Chromecast.
     
  10. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Most of the poor user experience with the S4 stems from the abysmally slow CPU. I'm really hoping that the souped up hardware in the next gen units will get rid of that problem. I don't know if you've ever used a Mini but the UI experience on it is soooooooo much better. I actually considered using one as a front end for my Elite at one point, unfortunately they don't have access to ToDo or the SPM so it wouldn't really work.

    I have high hopes for the next gen TiVos. I really hope they don't disappoint me. :)
     
  11. mattack

    mattack Active Member

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    Wait, I thought the 4 tuner premiere thing was only an "at launch time" thing? Did they say that officially that's what will EVER be supported?

    Also, hmm, that's funny, since the things you're interested in seem to be exactly what most other people AREN'T interested in regarding a DVR.. they just want it to record their TV shows reliably. And 'downloads on demand' -- what specifically do you mean? There's Amazon for that.

    I actually think it does a pretty good job for video podcasts, I still have a bunch of CNET podcasts subscribed to on my Tivos (have to nuke a bunch of the auto downloads on one tivo & consolidate them), though I end up *watching* them mostly on my iPad mini, since I can watch at 2x.. But I still download them on the Tivo so far.
     
  12. Grakthis

    Grakthis New Member

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    Your core point is valid, but you're still whiffing on arguing against my thesis. Which means either you don't get it, or you're nitpicking minor details that are totally irrelevant.

    The Xbox 360, today, right now, is plenty fast enough for everything the Xbox does. The Premiere was not fast enough ON RELEASE to do what it was designed to do. Period. The End. Improvements tot he Xbox left us with a platform that was more efficient, cheaper and added features. Improvements to the Premier platform left us with a platform that is still too slow, still lacks innovation and still barely outperforms the previous generation of hardware.

    It doesn't matter in the slightest if the old UI is faster on the new TiVo because I didn't buy the old UI, I bought the new UI. What matters to users is "is the actual experience of using the device improved." The answer is "meh, not really."

    If you're comparing apples to apples, where apples are the actual things you actually consume and not theoretical things you might theoretically consume if you have bad taste and hate innovation, then the Premiere is maybe equally as fast as the S3. Probably. But meanwhile, in the real world, with real people who actually use the S3 and the premier, it's not faster.

    I mean, you're literally talking to someone who has an original LED $800 S3 with the THX certification and 2 cable cards in his bedroom and a Premiere in his TV room. I switch back and forth between the two daily. I am WELL aware of the performance differences between the two. There is no performance incentive to upgrade from the S3 to a Premier. The only reason I've considered upgrading the S3 is for streaming and so I can save $3 a month on the cable card i could return.

    If you have a point to make, make it. Otherwise, just go "Yes, Grak, I agree, the premiere was a poor hardware refresh and they should have done more with it" and I can nod and stop having to write 10 paragraph posts to respond to you.
     
  13. Grakthis

    Grakthis New Member

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    Couldn't agree more.

    I also think they blew it with the Flash UI. It was just a poor choice of platform. But I doubt they reboot the whole UI again 4 years later unless they realized it as soon as they released it and were already working on a new platform in Java or something.
     
  14. Grakthis

    Grakthis New Member

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    I'm not going to stop using TiVos for cable TV because I am mad about their lack of DIAL support or the bad Netflix app. There is no competitor for them in the DVR market. What they do there, they do amazing and better than anyone else to the point where my choice of cable TV service is dictated by their TiVo support.

    What TiVo needs to be afraid of is how much of my regular TV watching is being replaced by internet media of some kind. If they don't keep up with that and make sure that TiVo remains the hub for my other media consumption, they are going to lose Input1 on my TV. And if you lose Input1 on my TV, you start looking more and more replaceable.

    Every time I hit the input button on my TV and switch to my Chromecast or PS3 to watch a show, that should cause a TiVo employee to scream in rage at their failures. They should strive to prevent that from ever happening.

    edit: Dynamic Tuner Allocation is, more and more, looking like a feature that is never happening. If the mini isn't selling, they aren't going to devote developer resources to improving it.
     
  15. Fofer

    Fofer XenForo Rocks! TCF Club

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    Yep. Precisely this happened. My TiVo feels sooooooo fast now. The menus are big, noatalgic, cartoony and ugly... but boy, is the overall UI so much more RESPONSIVE!
     
  16. HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    Paradise...
    The mini isn't selling because there ISN'T dynamic tuner allocation yet, not the other way around. (and most likely due to no 2 tuner Premiere support as well)
     
  17. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I wasn't trying to argue that the Premiere is a good box. I was simply pointing out that the refresh of the XBox platform was minor, and did not include a CPU upgrade either, so it was a poor comparison. If anything the 4 tuner refresh of the Premiere was a bigger hardware change. But really this is an apples to oranges comparison so it's irrelevant.

    I completely agree that the Premiere is too slow. I constantly say that on here. Until about 6 months ago I was still using the SDUI on my Premiere because the HDUI is so slow. The only reason I switched is because the changes to the To Do List and SPM made them so much easier to use. If it weren't for that I'd still be using the SDUI.

    I actually wonder if the hardware was designed before they decided to do the UI in Flash. Because if the original intent was to stick with the old UI then the Premiere would have been a massive improvement over the S3. If the HDUI didn't exist the Premiere would be heralded as the best TiVo to date. The only thing that makes it a flop is that the HDUI is so freaking slow. (and the apps are slow too)

    That being said if you've ever used a Mini you now how nice the HDUI is to use when it's paired with proper hardware. It's fast and effortless on the Mini. Which is why I'm so anxiously awaiting the next gen boxes. If they can run the HDUI as fast as the Mini then we should finally get to see the full potential of the HDUI. (would be nice if they finished all the screens too)

    According to Dave Zatz they're beta testing dynamic tuner allocation right now. With the Mini you have to remember that their main target is not consumers but their cable partners. They've got commitments there beyond just pleasing the few thousand people who bought these at retail.
     
  18. Fofer

    Fofer XenForo Rocks! TCF Club

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    And if the Mini worked with a two-tuner Premiere, even just to watch already-recorded shows in the NP List (as I never watch live TV) then I'd buy two of them. If it doesn't, I won't be upgrading to a four-tuner Premiere to make up for TiVo's incompetence -- this box will be my last.
     
  19. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    You can watch already recorded shows on a 2 tuner box from a Mini, I do it all the time. However it has to be paired to a 4 tuner box, at least for the time being. Basically the Mini is a reflection of the 4 tuner box it's paired to so when you select My Shows it shows the list on the 4 tuner box. But down at the bottom is a list of all the other TiVos on your network, including 2 tuner boxes, that you can select and play shows from just like you can from another TiVo.

    I'm not sure if the release of DTA is going to remove the 4 tuner as host restriction or not. We'll have to wait and see what they do there.
     
  20. Fofer

    Fofer XenForo Rocks! TCF Club

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    Sure, but I have only one TiVo in my home, a 2-Tuner Premiere. I have no need for a 4-Tuner Premiere as I don't get any recording conflicts with the box I already own.

    Is the 4-Tuner Premiere needed for set up of a Mini only? I'm guessing once that 4-Tuner Premiere is removed, at least after awhile, the Mini would stop working. If not, I'd borrow someone's for the setup and then use it with my 2-Tuner Premiere for the rest of its days. I have a feeling that won't pan out, though.
     

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