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How Can we Lobby Tivo to support information for QAM Tuners?

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by Rocko62580, Nov 19, 2006.

  1. Dec 5, 2006 #141 of 165
    Rocko62580

    Rocko62580 New Member

    46
    0
    Sep 25, 2006
    Well here is the message I recieved back from my cable company. I have to say that going to my town administrator speeded up the process, but it sounds like I still cannot get a cable card.

    Here is the reply.
    I spoke with the Town Administrator of &*(@#&*(@#@ regarding
    your
    e-mail referencing WMUR's Digital transmission and the ability to
    receive
    that channel. As you know MetroCast does offer this channel along with
    several other channels offered in the Digital format. We do offer these
    channels in the "clear", However if your television is not equipped
    with a
    "qam" tuner than you will not be able to view them. Unlike analog
    channels,
    this type of format is fairly new to the market and most TV's are not
    equipped to support this. You are correct in stating the "FCC" requires
    that
    cable companies offer this at no charge if the consumer has a
    television
    that supports this format. Both the Cable card and a digital converter
    are
    options to the consumer in lieu of having a television equipped with
    the qam
    tuner. MetroCast offers either solution. The price quoted to you for
    the
    cable card is a one time pass thru cost of the cable card and
    installation
    charge. I would be happy to discuss any other questions you may have.
    Please
    feel free to e-mail me or contact me at
     
  2. Dec 5, 2006 #142 of 165
    greg_burns

    greg_burns Now in HD

    6,384
    0
    May 21, 2004
    Slower...
    2 - S3 cannot play the TiVo "sounds" when it is also playing digital audio. This has been discussed before.

    4 - S3 code s based off older S2 software. Recycle bin will be added during next update. Perhaps, the two will then remain at the same level going fwd.
     
  3. Dec 5, 2006 #143 of 165
    TydalForce

    TydalForce Active Member

    1,013
    0
    Feb 8, 2006
    Philadelphia...
    Finally got off my lazy rump and sent in the info to TiVo

    If anyone else does too, I gave not only the QAM frequency, but the local OTA frequency, equivalent Digital Cable channel, and callsign info... thusly:

    118.1 = 6.1 / 231 / WPVIDT 6 ABC
     
  4. Dec 5, 2006 #144 of 165
    btwyx

    btwyx Substantive Member

    11,331
    0
    Jan 16, 2003
    Mountain...
    If I remember right:
    They wanted you to subscribe to extra packages. Now all he's talking about is an installation charge and a cost for the cable card, not for extra packages. Maybe you should clarify what costs he's talking about and ask him to install one without you subscribing to the extra packages.
     
  5. Dec 6, 2006 #145 of 165
    mattn2

    mattn2 New Member

    104
    0
    Mar 23, 2001
    Erie, CO
    I have submitted the four ... now to wait the 3-5 days for a response.

    # Matt
     
  6. Dec 6, 2006 #146 of 165
    Rocko62580

    Rocko62580 New Member

    46
    0
    Sep 25, 2006

    Just sent her back an email. Your right, she did not say anything about monthly cost. WIll keep you updated!
     
  7. Dec 6, 2006 #147 of 165
    TydalForce

    TydalForce Active Member

    1,013
    0
    Feb 8, 2006
    Philadelphia...
    Ah poo, got a response....

    Thank you for contacting TiVo&#146;s Channel Lineup Department. We have assigned case number <deleted> to your channel lineup report. Unfortunately we can not provide guide data for rebroadcast stations at this time. Such information as available could change without notice.


    Was worth a shot.
     
  8. Jan 9, 2007 #148 of 165
    dwynne

    dwynne New Member

    481
    0
    Mar 11, 2002
    I am in the same boat. I would order one today, transfer the lifetime from my old SA Tivo, and be happy - IF the S3 supported channel mapping on clear QAM channels.

    I am on lifeline (limited) basic with Comcast and get all the locals in HD in clear QAM plus some other clear QAM HD and SD stuff. In order for the QAM tuner to work for me in an S3 I would have to rent 2 cables cards ($10 per month plus tax for 2) AND likely upgrade to "digital tier" which may be $40-60 more per month.

    Other than the scuttlebutt on the forum, is there any OFFICIAL word from Tivo that they acknowledge the problem and will craft a solution?

    Thanks,
    Dennis
     
  9. Jan 9, 2007 #149 of 165
    ashu

    ashu User title defunct

    9,158
    0
    Nov 8, 2002
    MD
    Dennis, the CC pricing as well as the 'being forced to get a digital tier' is not accurate with Comcast. Who's your provider? You may want to call/escalate/complain.

    Some people are paying $17 for basic cable, 2CCs and no addons!
     
  10. Jan 9, 2007 #150 of 165
    russwong

    russwong New Member

    231
    0
    Sep 17, 2002

    The key word is "some" people.... also, it would seem a simple fix that could eliminate dealing with the cable company as a whole if they just added this feature. Where I am, Comcast requires that they come out and install the cable cards, that means taking a day off and hoping they get it right.... All of which could be easily avoided with a little software tweak. My HD capture card in my computer does it, granted it's not Tivo UI, but it's been good enough, sure would like to pull the trigger on this, but to spend $800 bucks and still have to hope the cable company gets it right, just seems more work then it's worth.
     
  11. Jan 9, 2007 #151 of 165
    kjmcdonald

    kjmcdonald New Member

    310
    0
    Sep 8, 2003
    Boston, MA
    No I don't think so. You don't have to. The Cable Company might like you to believe that, but I think the exact opposite is true.

    Just like the FCC requires Cable companies to offer the broadcast channels in a in-expensive package, I beleive they force the CC's to include the digital versions of these channels in the same package, and I could be wrong, but I think the CC's have to let you have the CableCARDs if you need them to tune in these digital channels that they have to provide in that 'cheap' package.

    This broadcast basic package is usuallay $10 -$15/month I think, and while they may get $0 to $10 more for 2 CableCARDs, I don't think they should be able to force you to get those other packages and pay those other fees.

    Someone who knows more about the FCC rules can correct me if I'm wrong though.

    -Kyle
     
  12. Jan 9, 2007 #152 of 165
    dwynne

    dwynne New Member

    481
    0
    Mar 11, 2002
    As russwong said - "some people". The Comcast here is charging $5 per month per card "rental" (plus taxes) and may or not allow cards to be renter by folks on limited/lifeline basic cable. Also, there are lots of clear QAM channels available that are NOT included if you do have the cable cards = so you pay more and get less.

    Then you add in all the folks having issues with the cards and it just gets worse.

    It sounds like folks that want this to work "right" without a cable card are in the minority, everytime someone asks for Tivo to fix it a bunch of folks just tells just to shut up and rent cable cards. If that is the attitude at Tivo, then I suppose it will never get fixed properly.

    Dennis
     
  13. Jan 9, 2007 #153 of 165
    dwynne

    dwynne New Member

    481
    0
    Mar 11, 2002
    If Tivo added clear QAM mapping, then we would not be forced to rent two cable cards to make it work. Why spend $120 + taxes extra a year for something that Tivo should have built into the S3 from the start?

    Dennis
     
  14. Jan 9, 2007 #154 of 165
    kjmcdonald

    kjmcdonald New Member

    310
    0
    Sep 8, 2003
    Boston, MA
    I realize now that this thread is a little old.

    But I think actually he's wrong.

    Your S3 (or any CableCARD ready TV *HAS* a QAM tuner. Getting a CableCARD isn't something you do when you don't have a QAM tuner.

    Getting a CableCARD is what you do to make the QAM tuner work correctly with their cable system. For more advanced cable packages 'work correctly' does include decrypting encrypted channels. But for your purposes, 'work correctly' means accessing and interpreting the CableCo's channel lineup that is encoded in the the digital signal, that no QAM tuner can access without a CableCARD.

    (Yes other tuners may be better at accessing the PSIP info that is in each channel signal - when they leave it in there, but That's different than the info the cable company sends out itself to the CableCARD and the STB's.)

    A cable card is useless withouat a QAM tuner... So unlike a STB it's not a solution for those who don't have QAM tuners. He's just wrong on that.

    -Kyle
     
  15. Jan 9, 2007 #155 of 165
    c3

    c3 TiVoholic

    3,067
    0
    Sep 8, 2000
    Silicon...
    Yes, but you're not subscribing to those channels in the first place.

    I agree that supporting manual QAM mapping would be nice, but that would be an additional feature, not a "fix". I think the majority of S3 owners need CableCards for decryption as well, not just for mapping (including myself).
     
  16. Rocko62580

    Rocko62580 New Member

    46
    0
    Sep 25, 2006
    OK. I just recevied a letter from the cable company here it is!

    "It is my understanding that if you were to pick up the DVR from us that
    you would have to add Basic Digital Cable along with that. The price to
    add the DVR which would give you basic digital cable, dvr and all 11
    high def. basic channels would be $18.90/month. If you were to go this
    route I would be able to throw in a free installation at that time.

    I did also speak with a couple of our technicians about the addition of
    TIVO. If you were to go with TIVO they stated that the unit does come
    with a built in tuner and would be able to pick up the high def off air
    channels for you without the cable card.

    Let me know if you have any questions with this and I will try to
    answer
    them in a timely manner."


    So do I need a Cable Card to record "in the clear" HD channels? I currently have a QAM tuner, so I know which frequencies to turn to!

    Please help!
     
  17. yunlin12

    yunlin12 Tivonation Citizen

    1,223
    0
    Mar 14, 2003
    San Jose, CA
    When I first had my cable cards installed, they didn't activate it correct, and all I could get was the OTA channels, but I was also able to get the HD OTA channels at the time. I think this answers the question, even with no authorization at all to decrypt any digital channels (including sub-100 channels here), the cable cards were able to do a channel mapping, and the S3 is able to tune to the correct HD local channels and receive them. I hope this is the case in other areas as well. I think this jives with reports from others in my area, that one can tune all the local HD channels using cable cards with basic cable alone.

    Extending this a little further, if cable cards' decryption functionality is not needed in receiving local HD, and the only part that's necessary is for cable cards to map the channel, then can one cable card provide channel lineup to both tuners? I have not tried this when my cable card was pre-activation, but I think it would be interesting to try, and it would save people cost of an extra cable card.
     
  18. Stormspace

    Stormspace Electrocuted by TiVo

    5,171
    0
    Apr 13, 2004
    Hartsville, SC
    It's my understanding that without the Cable Cards you will have no guide data for the QAM channels. This means that any recordings you want to do on those channels have to be manual recordings. You could not set up season passes or wishlists to record from these.
     
  19. Mike Farrington

    Mike Farrington Active Member

    3,778
    0
    Nov 16, 2000
    While you can see the HD channels without a CableCARD, recording them is currently problematic. Since there is no guide data for such channels, you have limited recording options which nullify TiVo's user-friendliness. The whole point of this discussion is to get TiVo to better support QAM channels when not using CableCARD(s).
     
  20. Stormspace

    Stormspace Electrocuted by TiVo

    5,171
    0
    Apr 13, 2004
    Hartsville, SC
    Is there an echo in here...here...here... :)
     

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