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How can they justify a monthly fee on this device?

Discussion in 'TiVo Mini' started by DVReveler, Sep 19, 2013.

  1. kherr

    kherr Member

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    Aug 1, 2006
    I have a P2. PXL4, and 2 Minis, and a mothballed S2. I bought both P a year ago. I just recently discovered the Minis. I bought 1 right off the bat to put in my office. There was no way I was going to have a full fledged box there, so the Mini fit right in. Then after I cleaned out my basement and restarted working on my model trains after over a year not touching them, I bought the second Mini. There again I could not justify a full fledge box, so the Mini fit right in. There's just me in the house. I had a cable DVR for about 3 months and could live with it. I had to have my TIVOs!!

    So yes, there are multiple boxes in a house ...
     
  2. AdamNJ

    AdamNJ New Member

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    Aug 22, 2013
    Dunellen, NJ
    I balked at the 250 price myself originally, and even if you are buying it elsewhere for less $$, when you add the lifetime though Tivo, you'll be paying sales tax on top of that. I would have been happier if the Mini + Lifetime was 200.

    I got myself too excited about getting a Mini after being so impressed with the Roamio. I decided to just say "**** it" and buy it. I got the Mini from B&H for 86 bucks, plus the Lifetime for 160.50 after tax for total of $246.50.

    Part of my decision was a good look at my Cablevision bill, which after some math I determined that I am paying $9.08 for the basic HD box in my bedroom. Cost breakdown:
    6.95 - box rental
    1.50 - additional outlet
    0.63 - sales tax on the box rental

    This means that it is paid for within 28 months considering the per month savings on my cable bill. If you want to consider monthly 9.08 - 6.41 (Mini monthly + nj tax) = 2.67. Using the balance to divide into $100 cost of the Mini, it would take 38 months to pay for itself. Lifetime is clearly a better deal.
     
  3. astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Member TCF Club

    10,068
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    Jan 6, 2003
    Houston &...
    I continue to get my money's worth from my S3 and Elite. No broken promises. And I just spent the bucks on a Roamio Pro and a Mini. And I don't feel screwed, I love it!

    As soon as I can watch Game of Thrones, Breaking Bad, and a million other shows as they air, I'll cut the cord.
     
  4. sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    May 10, 2002
    Tampa, FL
  5. moedaman

    moedaman New Member

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    Aug 21, 2012
    I'm not getting screwed by Tivo because I don't have a Mini. ;)

    When you add up what one of their dvrs cost with the lifetime sub, they're charging a fair price. But, while I don't think the Mini w/lifetime should cost the same as a Roku player, I do feel it should be more in line with the Echo. So Tivo is probably charging $75 too much. At that price Tivo really doesn't need to charge one price for the unit and then an additional charge for the guide. Just sell it at $175 and call it a day. Tivo could even say that the Mini comes automatically with a lifetime sub, so they can keep their investors happy.

    Oh, unless a mod tells me that I'm out of line, I'll keep posting my thoughts, regardless of this being a Tivo forum or not. Since I have two Tivo's myself, I am interested in this forum.

    OH, and if Tivo is paying a fee for guide service on Mini's, a machine that uses the already paid for guide service of another machine, then no wonder they have a hard time making money.
     
  6. lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,699
    5
    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    When you are the head of TiVo marketing department you could make your suggestions on how to sell the Mini, you also have the right to say it too much money, to me $250 works as I have one less cable card cost, and one less hard drive that could go bad, and it takes up much less space, and uses less power (OK that only saves me about $15/year). I would have paid $300 for the Mini, when TiVo stopped Lifetime service as an option some years ago people who had purchased lifetime cards from Best Buy were selling them on E-Bay, some went for as much as $790 !, way more than I would have paid. TiVo is having a hard time making money, the TiVo shareholders are not getting rich on their stock, it is possible that if TiVo cut its price of its products (and Lifetime service) by 20% their sales would double, and they would make more money, but I don't think so. There is no correct answer as what TiVo should price their products at, so if you think it is not a good deal don't purchase, no more can be said.
     
  7. wmhjr

    wmhjr Well-Known Member

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    Dec 1, 2007
    I would say it provides greater access to MSO delivered content - nothing else. Yes, that is sure a big deal at this point. However, for other content, such as Hulu, Amazon, etc - Tivo is probably the worst platform and the mini is non-existent.

    Bottom line is that it is a very different device. I would also agree that it is overpriced, and Tivo is putting themselves in very very dangerous territory. At whatever point in time that MSO delivered content becomes 50% or less (as compared to sources such as IP delivered content, Hulu, etc) then Tivo is in really really serious trouble. They have consistently demonstrated that they are inferior in that area.
     
  8. wmhjr

    wmhjr Well-Known Member

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    Dec 1, 2007
    A few things to remember here.

    First, Tivo can (and does) obviously do what they want. It's their company. We're the customers, however IMHO Tivo has become less and less attuned to customer expectations and more and more struggling to find a short term model that will slow the bleeding from a cash perspective.

    Second, The Tivo vs Cableco argument and the rent/lease vs lifetime will never bee resolved. Truth is that there are way too many variables here, and way too many different experiences. I've personally never had a Fios DVR fail - period. And, I pay zero for mine. For Lifetime. OTOH, just about every single Tivo product I've had has failed and required replacement. Some have been replaced for free, others not. Clearly, the ability to return and exchange is far superior for the cableco model. OTOH, if NOTHING goes wrong, then the Tivo model (assuming you're willing to commit a large sum up front) works out to be cheaper over the long haul.

    As for broken promises, I would absolutely say that Tivo has broken the bank there. Or, I guess maybe not, because they "allude" to things they'll deliver, rarely commit to details or a date, and then often simply don't do it. Just my experience.

    When (I'm certain it's not if) it becomes yet easier to cut the cord, Tivo will be but a memory for me. Only the cablecard requirement makes them relevant for me at this point. The Mini works reasonably well, though considering it demands a cablecard and tuner from another Tivo, I certainly believe the cost is a ripoff. I paid it due to poor judgement. I'm not sure that I would do it again. Hard to say.
     
  9. swerver

    swerver Member

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    May 18, 2012
    Nothing else, true, but right now that is the vast majority of quality content. I agree on the premiere the apps were poor but on the roamio they are much better, close enough to roku for me anyway. Not sure why you say the mini's apps are non-existent. The only one that doesn't work is amazon, which personally I don't use often. Paying per episode seems like a potentially expensive model that I'm not interested in, I'd rather just pay my $60/mo for cable tv and record whatever I like. And even comcast on demand works for me, both on the roamio and mini. So tivo is a good fit, for me. And now with the dial support? That is a sweet feature. Others do it but then you gotta switch inputs, it's just not as slick. And this works with minis too.

    I agree that everyone's experience will be different, and different factors can sweeten or sour one side to the point that those factors are making the decision. I was always stuck with horrible comcast dvrs. The fios dvrs sound much better, but I can't get fios, so that's out. I have most content unrestricted and the tivo makes it really easy to transfer stuff to tablets. This is a big feature to me and my family, and the other dvrs either don't do it at all, or as well. Again, tivo fits, for me. Maybe that makes me more easily dismiss some other problems that could be deal breakers for others, but that goes both ways.

    I don't like the price of most things :D but does that mean they are overpriced? Usually that's determined by the market, but in this case there isn't much of one. There isn't anything else that does what it does. The echo is close but I don't think I can use it with a tivo, and I already tried the htpc route, didn't like it.

    So if we are comparing to the echo or or a roku, basically we are arguing about $50-75 here. In the scheme of things it's not that much. I'll pay it to get the setup I want because it's the best fit for me, I can't really get a better arrangement than I have now. For a long time I've wanted to get all cable devices off my bill and just use the 1 free cable card I'm allowed - finally I'm there! Extra cable cards or devices are spendy in my area - again, the tivo fits, for me. For others it's not as good a fit so that extra cash is the straw that made the camel look at something else.

    Overpriced for some. Just what I've been waiting for, for others.

    Now if you wanna know what's overpriced - IMO - apple products and wireless service from the big 4. But I say that not just because I think they are too expensive, but because other options exist that provide the same features, for much less money. Speaking of getting screwed, have you seen apple's profit margins? YMMV
     
  10. wmhjr

    wmhjr Well-Known Member

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    Dec 1, 2007
    Well, let's put it this way.

    Amazon is a big deal for many, including the total lack of Amazon prime capability for Tivo. I can't speak for the Roamio apps- because I don't have one, and probably never will. With 2 XL4s, a Premiere and 2 minis, I'm done spending on Tivo for as long as I can possibly go. I had HDs, and upgraded to Premieres in hopes of finally fixing some problems and getting MRV working. I'm not going to subsidize further Tivo R&D when much of what I have already both does not transfer, and does not work properly. It's good enough to keep only because it's paid for, and the alternative is not strong enough to displace it.

    I look forward to not having to pay for MSO delivered content. That day is not very soon, but it is getting closer and closer. Where a few years ago I still questioned the likelihood of it happening, I no longer do - and think it's just a matter of time at this point. But that's just a guess.

    The minis that I have are simply "OK". For VZ, video on demand does not exist with Tivo. We'll just have to disagree.

    As I write this, I'm STILL waiting for some "promised" support on a long standing and still occurring set of issues...... By long standing, I mean being measured in years - not days, weeks or months.
     
  11. swerver

    swerver Member

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    May 18, 2012
    Agreed, that is not cool and I would feel the same way. I'm newer to tivo so maybe eventually I'll experience "tivo burnout" like you've described.
     

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