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House passes STELA, ends Cablecard integration requirement

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by slowbiscuit, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. Jul 31, 2014 #61 of 138
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    I'm not seeing how this para is unclear about support, but as you said there's no timeframe in it. I seriously doubt they're going to do anything to purposefully sabotage or abandon cards as long as they're working on a new standard, but after that we'll have to see what the take up is.

    Under the terms of the agreement, Comcast commits to continue to provide and support
    CableCARDs in retail devices notwithstanding the D.C. Circuit’s EchoStar decision last year
    vacating certain CableCARD rules. Comcast will ensure that all CableCARD-enabled devices
    will continue to have access to all linear channels in all Comcast markets.
     
  2. Jul 31, 2014 #62 of 138
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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  3. Jul 31, 2014 #63 of 138
    davezatz

    davezatz Funkadelic

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  4. Jul 31, 2014 #64 of 138
    BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Active Member

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    Do those integrated and non-integrated cards have different firmware? Is the cable company simply pretending to use them in their own boxes?

    The cable companies had to get CableCards working so their own boxes would work. If they weren't forced to use CableCards themselves, they wouldn't work nearly as well as they do today. There's barely supporting something, and then there's fully supporting something.

    The MSOs hate Tivo owners because supporting them is a huge PITA, and they don't buy any VOD or PPV which is a huge money-maker for the MSOs.
     
  5. Jul 31, 2014 #65 of 138
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    In the order you posted:

    Same firmware, different communication modes, and differences in what tables and data would be downloaded, depending on which type of box they go in (they can sense which).

    Their boxes already had cablecards in them. They were just not "cards", but the components inside a card, instead soldered to the board. The integration ban just made them stop doing it that way, added to production costs per cable box/DVR, and still didn't make cablecards any better.

    If I was a MSO, I'd hate TiVo too, unless I shielded myself from the big picture, and only looked at things from retail device maker/buyer/owner POVs.
     
  6. Jul 31, 2014 #66 of 138
  7. Jul 31, 2014 #67 of 138
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    Interesting. Yay Comcast, a whole bunch of different systems that charge different amounts for the same thing!
     
  8. Jul 31, 2014 #68 of 138
    eboydog

    eboydog Just TiVo'ing.....

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    Simple fact, if cableco's don't have to support cards in their equipment any longer, support for cable cards in third party boxes will suffer. FCC rules or not, as bad as they don't like them now, cable companies will hate them even worse.

    2nd simple fact, cable companies see cable cards as something that cuts into their maximum possible income, they only welcome innovation if there is money to be made.

    Yes there are possible better alternatives to cable cards for third party devices but unless there is a mandate from the FCC to implement such standard, such as what was attempted with cable cards, there will never be a recognized standard and this will mean the end of retail TiVos.
     
  9. Jul 31, 2014 #69 of 138
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Exactly WHAT "support" is involved with making a box, slapping a card in, and never pulling that card out until the box is retired/scrapped (if even then, based on the "how to scrap cable boxes" YouTube videos I see)?

    There is no cablecard "support" with MSO leased boxes! There is no pairing that requires any phone calls. Most every cablecard installed in a MSO box, remains there until the box hits the scrap heap.

    The pairing can be done automatically, due to the bidirectional communication, and the box and card being able to be identified remotely, should the pairing somehow be dropped. No human interaction is even required.

    Comparing a single cablecard (the same one), if installed in a MSO box, or installed in a Retail unit, is comparing apples to bowling balls.
     
  10. Aug 1, 2014 #70 of 138
    slowbiscuit

    slowbiscuit FUBAR

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    The FCC has completely abdicated its role in IP-standards development, starting with the disappearing act after the cableCos told them to pound sand on AllVid.

    At this point the only hope we have is some sort of industry developed downloadable standard, the FCC is worthless here.
     
  11. Aug 1, 2014 #71 of 138
    davezatz

    davezatz Funkadelic

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    And most of the industry isn't interested in subsidizing TiVo. They've got their iPad and Xbox apps, TWC even has Roku. TiVo is a thorn in the cable industry's side and FCC seems largely incapable and disinterested, as you say.
     
  12. Aug 1, 2014 #72 of 138
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    That's it, succinctly stated. IPTV will eventually prevail. What is scary about that is the monopoly status that cable MSO's have for internet service in a large fraction of the USA. However, IPTV will be demanded by a major segment of the population rather than the tiny percentage who care about TiVo. That huge political, and market, pressure will (hopefully) furnish the incentive for the MSO's and FCC to respond much better than they have to TiVo.

    We can always hope that future technological developments will obsolete the cable MSO's current monopoly. Then it will be so satisfying to see them be forced to compete -- or go out of business. Nothing personal but I will welcome that day.
     
  13. Aug 1, 2014 #73 of 138
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    LOL. Most people have no clue how they get their TV (QAM vs. IPTV), and far fewer actually care. They just know what channels it has, maybe how much it costs. No one is demanding IPTV, as the experience on a U-Verse IPTV box is pretty much exactly the same as on a QAM-based Comcast box.
     
  14. Aug 1, 2014 #74 of 138
    trip1eX

    trip1eX Active Member

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    Do they really hate Tivo much? Tivo has 3-4x the number of MSO subs than retail subs.
     
  15. Aug 2, 2014 #75 of 138
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    That's just the thing. Retail is a small business for TiVo, and the MSOs that use TiVos will figure out with TiVo how to make them work, CableCard or not.
     
  16. Aug 4, 2014 #76 of 138
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Just worse video quality than even Comcast.
     
  17. Aug 4, 2014 #77 of 138
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    True, but only a small subset of people would notice degraded video quality From ATT U-Verse. (except people on this Forum)
     
  18. Aug 4, 2014 #78 of 138
    Banker257

    Banker257 New Member

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    Yes, retail is small, but it takes about 10 MSO subs to equal 1 retail sub revenue wise.
     
  19. Aug 4, 2014 #79 of 138
    Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    True. And that's pretty pathetic since Comcast is known for overcompression. It's pretty sad that almost no one cares about video quality.

    True. But it also has higher customer acquisition costs, since the MSOs are handling that part of the process on that side. Are you sure it's 10:1? That sounds rather extreme.
     
  20. Aug 4, 2014 #80 of 138
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    I think the 10 to 1 (referred to above) is gross profit per sale, not a cost difference of 10 to 1.
     

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