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House passes STELA, ends Cablecard integration requirement

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by slowbiscuit, Jul 23, 2014.

  1. Jul 24, 2014 #21 of 138
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    The integration ban hasn't really done anything to make the consumer CC experience better. They send out boxes with the CC soldered in place and preactivated for their system and hey have a completely different UI in their support system for setting up their own boxes vs retail CC devices. The purpose of the integration ban was to make it so retail devices and rented boxes were on equal footing, but that has never really been the case. By the time CCs were actually deployed MSOs had started offering additional services which were not compatible with CCs such as VOD and SDV. TiVo had to push hard to get the Tuning Adapter adopted just so we could tune SDV channels and even now they are not well supported and problematic for a lot of users.

    While CCs allow us to access digital channels, which we wouldn't be able to do without them, they're also a poorly designed mess in need of a more up to date replacement. I just hope that the MSOs learned their lesson with CCs and will come up with something easier to use next time around.
     
  2. Jul 24, 2014 #22 of 138
    shrike4242

    shrike4242 Member

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    I agree that we need something else in place, though there's no real impetus for the cable companies to make that quickly available. If there were some push to have them either save time/money/effort to have another solution in place that would work, that's another matter entirely. If there was a cleaner and easier solution than having CCs and TAs, I'd be all for it, as long as they don't break what's working until it can be tested and verified.

    I just think that this change in the environment will make them less likely to support third party devices because it'll be just too much work for them.
     
  3. Jul 24, 2014 #23 of 138
    dlfl

    dlfl Cranky old novice

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    There may be a lesson that we would want the MSO's to have learned. But, from their viewpoint, what lesson should they learn?
    This. I don't see what "lesson" they could have learned that would make them more likely to want to enable third party devices.

    Seems to me the sad CC/TA experience has just validated the MSO's business model of suppressing third party access. Not a lesson I wanted them to learn.
     
  4. Jul 24, 2014 #24 of 138
    telemark

    telemark New Member

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    The way I saw it, there was an intentional campaign by certain CableCo's to kill off popularity by pretending to be inept. And they've been successful. In a just world, they should be punished instead of rewarded but that's not our world. At least we can call it as it is, get the narrative right, before we go into the next version.

    We have something functional today which gives a very useful end product (consumer oriented Tivo DVR). I honestly expect the replacement is going to include more overbearing control mechanisms. To make up a few, not being able to record, not be able to skip commercials, not be able to skip back, expiring recordings, control number of times being views.

    While I just made that up, all I did was copy the modes that we already have with OnDemand.
     
  5. Jul 24, 2014 #25 of 138
    bareyb

    bareyb Under Maintenance TCF Club

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    Agreed. The days of Ad free (via skipping) TV are coming to an end. Gonna have to start timing those Pee breaks accordingly or downloading everything to a PC for pre-processing before we can watch it. :eek:
     
  6. Jul 24, 2014 #26 of 138
    mattack

    mattack Active Member

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    If that happens, then I'll just go back to Netflix. I'm even one of the semi-supporters of On Demand, even with some unskippable ads, but mostly because as I've said before, most shows, even "broadcast" channels, end up with a version with VERY limited commercials (less than Hulu, I think) a few days after broadcast.. so it's a good backup solution.
     
  7. Jul 25, 2014 #27 of 138
    bareyb

    bareyb Under Maintenance TCF Club

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    I don't mind the one or two commercials they have on VOD that much either. I do feel ss soon as the powers that be can kill off the any alternative to streaming, they will up the number of commercials dramatically. We'll probably will be back to 20 minutes per hour in no time. I'm dreading it. I suspect if they make it too untenable then I'll figure out how to process the commercials out of my stuff before I view it. They already have Free Applications that can do that now. I already use PyTivo, I think all I'd need is that KTTG (?) thing. It sounds like it works pretty well.
     
  8. Jul 25, 2014 #28 of 138
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    If we ae forced to go back to how it was when I watched TV in the 70's with no way to pause, rewind, Fast Forward, etc.. then I will just stop watching broadcast Tv. There is no way I am going to watch 20 minutes of commercials every hour
     
  9. Jul 25, 2014 #29 of 138
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    :up::up::up:
     
  10. Jul 25, 2014 #30 of 138
    randian

    randian Member

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    I don't understand why the cablecos want to increase restrictions on viewers (force commercials, forbid DVR-DVR transfers). Do they really believe their carriage fees would increase measurably if they could force DVR customers to watch commercials? I think that's a fool's wish.
     
  11. Jul 25, 2014 #31 of 138
    shrike4242

    shrike4242 Member

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    Agreed.

    Now I think is the time to hold onto CCs and TAs until death and pass them down to your children. I was going to scale down my Premiere XL and XL4 into a Roamio Pro and a Mini, though I guess I'll need to hold onto my CC and TA in that situation for fear I won't get another one without huge hurdles.
     
  12. Jul 26, 2014 #32 of 138
    dave13077

    dave13077 Member

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    I think we are at least 5 years if not 10 away from any interruption. The pace that government works I am not too worried. At that point we will all already be on to the "the next big thing"....... It may or may not be Tivo related.
     
  13. Jul 26, 2014 #33 of 138
    replaytv

    replaytv gun talk ignore list

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    Amen, Brother ( or Sista' )
    I still can't believe most of my friends and family don't have DVRs and mostly watch all those commercials. Probably makes the advertisers happy though. Maybe they are the only ones that keeps the advertisers still buying the ads.
     
  14. Jul 26, 2014 #34 of 138
    trip1eX

    trip1eX Active Member

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    Yeah my wife seems to watch commercials most of the time even though she can easily skip them.

    She really seems to want tv to be as much of a passive event as possible. :)

    Plus she enjoys many of the commercials.
     
  15. Jul 26, 2014 #35 of 138
    eboydog

    eboydog Just TiVo'ing.....

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    That's exactly the problem. Without the cable card standard every cable company is going to implent their own security standard and there is no way TiVo will be able to support everyone. This is the end of retail TiVo freedom and the end of a good consumer choice.
     
  16. Jul 26, 2014 #36 of 138
    telemark

    telemark New Member

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    Many CableCo's are backing the Comcast RDK for future deployments, which is the hardware behind Comcast X1 and extremely similar to Tivo's hardware. Tivo should have an easy time playing in that club.

    The hold outs might be Charter and Cablevision. Charter is talking about an IPTV box, Cablevision has mentioned a boxless household. Whatever it is, sounds like they have a different vision than the other MSO's. While I think they have merit I'm not sure if they can actualize it and the longer it takes them to hammer out, the more behind they'll be and embracing the RDK (as a mature platform) will be the fastest way to be catching up.
     
  17. Jul 26, 2014 #37 of 138
    ajwees41

    ajwees41 Active Member

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    how much bandwidth would be needed if the tivo was able to download the security and also have access to 2 way services like ondemand or PPV via remote. Would that even work with current premieres or newer?
     
  18. Jul 26, 2014 #38 of 138
    CuriousMark

    CuriousMark Forum Denizen

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    Bandwidth isn't an issue. The downloadable security is a one and done thing, similar to a firmware update.
    Two way services may be an issue since the TiVo box does not have a built in modem. But it can use the Internet if allowed. It appears that this is how the Comcast plan would work. Comcast already provides on demand and PPV This way.
     
  19. Jul 26, 2014 #39 of 138
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    I hope that any downloadable security or as you have called it a firmware update, could be stored on a card that would fit into the current cable card slot, even better, does the Roamio have room on their internal flash to store and use any downloadable security??.
     
  20. Jul 26, 2014 #40 of 138
    rainwater

    rainwater Active Member

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    Obviously two way will not be an issue. Downloadable security wouldn't be possible (or even allowed by the cable co) if they weren't doing two way communication. This is how TiVo is planning on doing away with SDV boxes with MSO TiVo's.
     

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