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Hooking up Stream without hardwired TiVo

Discussion in 'TiVo Stream' started by ort, Sep 6, 2012.

  1. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    That's not true. The setup is done through the iPad app, which itself is wireless. That poster doesn't know what they're talking about.

    Just put it wherever you plan to use it. It's all just networking, it'll work no matter where it is.

    Dan
     
  2. ThomasAlexHD

    ThomasAlexHD ThomasAlexHD

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    I have FIOS with an Actiontec N router and two Tivo Premieres using Tivo wireless N adapters. It took a while to get them configured properly to stream between themselves without issues, but that happened about a month ago. So I decided to go with your advice and other similar comments, and installed a Stream last night. It is hooked directly into the router via Ethernet, and the Tivos are still using the Wireless N. At no point did I have to create even a temporary wired connection for either Tivo. Basically, I just plugged the Stream into the router and a power strip.

    Then I updated the Apple OS on an Ipod Touch, brought the Tivo app down to it, and started the Stream setup from the iTouch. I needed to sign in to my Tivo account to activate the Stream. That took maybe 15 minutes to happen on the Tivo servers. Then I had to run Network Diagnostics once on each Tivo box to get them updated to know about the Stream. Then I selected each Tivo box in turn in the app, entered the Media Key for the Tivo DVR, and waited through the app's last step (testing streaming). Pretty painless except I didn't realize I had to select each box after running ND to complete the process for each box.

    So far, I watched about 10 minutes of recorded TV right away on the iPod Touch to check things out, then downloaded a two hour movie and checked a few minutes of it to see that it looked OK. Then I watched about 40 minutes of a prerecorded soccer game. It glitched at one point but recovered when I shut the app down and restarted. So all in all, this was a highly successful install cycle.

    I agree that there's a difference between what Tivo will support and spend time on with you vs what may work. In this case, it's the wired vs wireless boundary. If you have wireless Tivos now and can't stream between them successfully, I would think streaming to the Stream is likely to fail as well. If you have two wireless Tivos using N, a good router, plenty of bandwidth and you can stream between the Tivos now, a Stream may work for you despite being not supported. It could go either way...

    Update a day later: watched 40 minutes of a recorded show without a glitch. Used the 30 second skip forward and 8 second skip back for the first time since the show contained commercials (ugh). All worked as expected. These are shows recorded in HD and the iPod Touch is a gen 4 with the first Retina display. Picture quality is excellent.
     
  3. FiddyownzX1

    FiddyownzX1 New Member

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    Sep 23, 2012
    I will tell you exactly what TiVo will tell you.

    Not Supported.

    Bottom line (Despite the uninformed comments on some of these forums) Wireless is not fast enough for the TiVo Stream to operate correctly.

    It's designed for a wired network, use on a wireless network even with an N Adapter will probably lend bad results.
     
  4. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    That's not true. You'll never see a cable or OTA recording exceed 20Mbps, and the Stream recodes at a bitrate of 2.24Mbps. So even if you throw in some overhead you'd never exceed 25Mbps. In the real world a 802.11g connection operates at about 30Mbps, so if you're still using a G network you may be pushing it. However 802.11n runs at around 150Mbps in the real world and should be able to handle the Stream no problem. You probably wont be able to do the maximum 4 streams at once, but one should work OK.

    Now obviously signal quality, interference and other network traffic can effect it. But for most situations an N network should work fine, and a G network might work under optimal conditions.

    Dan
     
  5. jay_man2

    jay_man2 jay_man-also

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    Northern...
    Could have fooled me. I saw no difference in performance recently when streaming the same show from a wired TiVo to an iPad and my wireless N-adapter TiVo to an iPhone at the same time.
     
  6. ThomasAlexHD

    ThomasAlexHD ThomasAlexHD

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    One side note on signal quality for Tivo to Tivo streaming using the Tivo N adapters - it's apparently important that you have a top-notch signal to get reliable glitchless streaming. You can have a weaker signal that is perfectly adequate for hitting the Internet, getting the Guide data, etc, but not good enough to do streaming.

    While trying to get my streaming working reliably, the power went out a few times. Getting streaming back was very problematic. I learned two things from online posts that helped:

    1. Sometimes after a short power outage or Tivo restart, something remains set in that box that can prevent the box from being found via the network. It can still dial out, get the Guide data, etc - it just can't be accessed for streaming by the network. The solution that seemed to work: unplug the box, leave it off for at least 30 minutes (apparently clearing some kind of persistent buffer memory), then turn it back on.

    2. Back to signal quality: I have one Tivo in the room with the router, and a second one downstairs with some intervening walls. After reading advice to get the best possible signal, I extended the N adapter's cable as far as I could towards the router, with great success. That difference of five feet or so was the difference between very glitchy streaming and streaming so smooth you couldn't tell which box you were watching.
     
  7. scottfehr

    scottfehr New Member

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    May 12, 2012
    Wanted to share my experience for others looking into the wireless only option. I have only one Premier, and have it using the wifi adapter. I hooked up my Stream last night and the setup went fine.

    Net result is similar to a couple of others in this thread, I can download shows (slowly, but that's ok) but when I try and stream, I get about 10 seconds worth and then it stops. Rinse, repeat, not watchable.

    So I broke down and ordered the Actiontec Verizon Coaxial Network Adapter MOCA thingy. Got it for $74 free shipped on ebay. More expensive than I think it should be, but for me the ROI is still good because it means we can use our two Ipads as second TV's, which was the main goal for me.

    I'll report back with the (hopefully positive) results once it's here.

    edit: My biggest complaint so far has nothing to do with the Stream, but rather the copyright issues that prevent me from downloading most of my favorite shows, e.g. anything HBO.
     
  8. wrecklass

    wrecklass New Member

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    I tried with the TiVO connected over Wireless N and found that I could not stream HD programs without a lot of buffering every few minutes. I switched the TiVo to a 200mbps Home plug power adapter and the Stream connected directly to a wired port on the Wireless AP/router. That has worked fine for me without any issues watching full HD video on the iPad.

    Again, I wish they had the horsepower in the TiVo to do the transcoding directly and we didn't need all of this extra hardware and networking bother.
     
  9. scottfehr

    scottfehr New Member

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    Got the Actiontec MOCA piece yesterday. Took about 5 minutes to connect and works exactly as advertised - now streams in real time flawlessly.
     
  10. ducker

    ducker New Member

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    Don't you need 2? One at your router/cable modem, and one at your Tivo box?

    I'm in your boat too... When I'm on my PC late at night, I can easily transfer over a show or two - but it's slow, and sometimes lose the connection (the wifi to the premier box)

    I'd love to go the MoCA route, but I figured I needed to get two of those.
     
  11. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Depends. The Premiere 4, XL4 and Elite units have MoCa built in so if you have one of those then you only need a MoCa adapter on the router side. FIOS, and a few other cable companies, also supply routers with MoCa built inso on that case you only need an adapter on the TiVo side. Or maybe not at all if you have FIOS and an Elite/XL4/4 unit.

    If you have a standard Premiere and a standard router, then yes you will need one at each end. They sell a combo pack with 2 for about $120 so it's a little cheaper then buying them individually.

    Dan
     
  12. ducker

    ducker New Member

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    So yea, bummer. I have a standard premiere. And when I looked at my Fios cable modem I don't see any type of second coax connection. So it looks like I'd have to get a double kit that you mentioned. Thanks.
     
  13. wkearney99

    wkearney99 Bill Kearney

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    Bethesda,...
    You'd use a splitter on the coax. Then you'd have to use a Moca adapter (coax-to-ethernet) for anything else needing a wired network connection.

    But, truth be told, it's a lot less hassle to just run the CAT5 wire needed. No screwing around with adapters, just a simple bit of wire. If you have coax going there then just run the CAT5 along with it. It will be a lot less trouble in the long run.
     
  14. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    It doesn't need an "extra" coax connector, MoCa runs on the same coax cable that caries your video signal. I'm pretty sure all FIOS routers have MoCa built in, but you might want to search your specific model number just in case. If not you may be able to just get a different one from Verizon and save your self the $ for two adapters.

    Also ignore the previous post about needing a splitter, you don't. The MoCa adapters have a pass through port built in. You just connect the cable from the wall to the adapter and then a short cable from the adapter to the TiVo. Also I disagree that it's easier to run Cat-5. I live in a two story house and there is simply no easy way to run Cat-5 from upstairs to down stairs. However coax is already run to both locations on the outside of the house so using a MoCa network was as simple as just plugging into the adapter.

    Dan
     
  15. wkearney99

    wkearney99 Bill Kearney

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    Well, it would depend on where the cabling is run and where he wants to place the MOCA bridge. Yes, if you're going to daisy-chain the stuff and the cabling is right there then of course you'd use the in/out connections.

    I seem to recall having a Motorola MOCA device that was single-ended, without a pass-through. But I could be wrong and since it's buried in ton of boxes until we move back to the new house I can't confirm otherwise.

    As for the routers, any of the Actiontec ones I've had for FIOS supported it. The trick is whether you're using the standard ONT-to-router connection over coax or over ethernet. If you're using an ethernet connection to the ONT then there's some configuration hurdles to leap. But either you'd still only need one MOCA bridge at the Tivo end.

    I still come back to the notion that says that in the long run it's a lot less trouble to use an actual wired ethernet link. That will 'just work' and stay that way regardless of any reconfiguration or updates they might push to the router.
     
  16. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    If running cables is an option then of course Ethernet is the best option. However the whole reason technologies like MoCa or Homeplug even exist is because in a lot of cases running wires is not an option.

    Dan
     
  17. wkearney99

    wkearney99 Bill Kearney

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    Or one naively/ignorantly assumed not to be worth pursuing.

    Honestly, the ease with which the wire can be pulled is a lot more trivial than people often assume. And the on-going headaches with the alternatives are worse. If there's a coax line pulled then adding the twisted pair for ethernet is certainly not going to be any more difficult. Yes, there a certainly situations where it could be problematic, but those are FAR outnumbered by cases where it'd be trivially simple.

    My point is that: keep is simple. Pull the wire once and it will just stay working. I say this having tried various the kludges over the years and the time/money wasted on the powerline, moca, wifi and other hacks always ends up being worse than if a wire was pulled.
     
  18. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    As I said above in my house pulling a wire was not an option. The coax is run on the outside of the house to traverse the 1st and 2nd floors. There is no way to get a cable from upstairs to downstairs other then maybe using the ducting which requires special, expensive, flume rated cat-5 cables or going outside which also requires special, expensive, outdoor rated cables. Hooking up a MoCa adapter took 3 minutes and has worked flawlesssly ever since. (running for about a month now without a single issue) It might have been better to run cat-5, but it would have been significantly more difficult and expensive for me to do so.

    Dan
     
  19. scottfehr

    scottfehr New Member

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    May 12, 2012
    Your FIOS router acts as the second MOCA unit by default, so you don't need to do anything with it. All you do is take the existing coax cable going into your Premier, split it with the 1:2 splitter included in the box with the Actiontec adapter.

    The Actiontec also includes a pair of 1 meter coax cables in the box. One goes from the splitter to the Tivo Premier, the other goes from the splitter into the MOCA adapter. Done.

    This is the one I bought (I got mine on ebay for a few bucks less)

    http://www.amazon.com/Actiontec-Ver...810566&sr=1-3&keywords=actiontec+moca+adapter
     
  20. ducker

    ducker New Member

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    *wince* after getting the wife to approve the purchase of the Stream, I doubt I'd be able to convince her to spring for another $80 or so at least not right now :D

    Check that - it looks like they are around $90 :)
     

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