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Homeland S02E12 "The Choice" 12/16/2012

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by robojerk, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. Hank

    Hank AC•FTW

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    It's "Dar Adal" according to Showtime's twitter feed (and other sources).
     
  2. MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

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    Northern...
    Ganza has admitted that the CIA operating within the US is a major fiction. Not only can they not assassinate people (anywhere - in theory) They can't even do intelligence gathering inside the US.
     
  3. MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

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    Northern...
    Estes could have put Quinn on the team without putting him in charge of the team. If his role was to deal with Bordy at the nd, he didn't need to run the op to do that.

    He knew Quinn even had the skills in surveillance and tactics?
     
  4. DreadPirateRob

    DreadPirateRob Seriously?

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    You misunderstand me. My point was that:

    1) Estes is the one that wanted Brody dead, partly because Brody knew about his involvement with the drone strike.

    2) Estes put Quinn on Saul's team per some agreement with Dar Adal, presumably with the understanding that Quinn would kill Brody once it was over.

    3) Despite Estes putting Quinn on the team, Estes had no real control over Quinn - Quinn was and is Dar Adal's man, and Quinn/Dar Adal and Estes are under different chains of command within the CIA (Intel versus Ops) - so despite Estes' wishes that Quinn take out Brody, he could not order or otherwise force him to do so if Quinn opted not to (unless, of course, Dar Adal told Quinn to go forward with it - we don't know at this point whether that happened).

    4) In any event, Estes' hit on Brody was undoubtedly an illegal order, so Quinn would be free to disregard if he had the backbone to stand up to Estes. The CIA does not engage in hits on foreign leaders, much less sitting US Congressmen.
     
  5. mrdazzo7

    mrdazzo7 Active Member

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    Finally got a chance to watch... I agree with a lot of others, it was a bit of a mess. For starters, the first 40 minutes was the most uneventful/un-thrilling period of time in the two seasons of the show.

    Carrie and Brody: The entire Carrie/Brody "we'll throw away our lives and give up everything we love to be together" angle is a major miscalculation in my opinion. It's so absurd and far-fetched that it takes me out of the show (since caring for the two leads is an integral part of investment in a story)... Like someone else said, I could by some kind of misguided, temporary sexual tension and maybe some action, but the way they're forcing this as some kind of "romeo and juliet"/doomed lovers thing isn't flying with me. Especially her giving up the CIA for someone she knows plotted a major terrorist attack, and who killed the vice president (under duress or not). And someone who she previously hated and wanted to bring down in a way she'd never felt before.

    The Bomb: My first thoughts on the car bomb were that the writers started digging in their "24" playbook because nothing about it made any sense... I'm assuming there is security cameras that show Brody parking the car, and then eventually someone else loading it with enough explosives to do what it did, and moving it behind a big ass window that over 200 people were facing. Granted we don't know the details yet so if it turns out that a CIA mole disabled somehow disabled the cameras then loaded and moved the car with absolutely no detection, then that would be SOMEWHAT believable (believable within the scope of this show, not any reality).

    I also have to see how they proceed with Carrie next season - there is no way she just pops back up and isn't under immediate suspicion. They know she was in the room. They know she wasn't in the blast and subsequently wasn't anywhere to be found for another 24 hours (or more). What is her explanation?

    I was surprised to see the tape get released, that I didn't see coming. I though the acting in that scene was excellent. They were all completely stunned. I was also laughing at Brody getting and roaming around with a fake ID as if that would do *anything* at this point. He's officially responsible for the worst domestic attack since 9/11. If he's not dead or captured in the season premiere, I might be done.

    I did like the twist that he tried to commit an attack but couldn't go through with it, then got caught and helped catch Nazir, then had a clean slate, but then got framed for an actual successful attack that he actually didn't commit.

    I'm also not clear on how Nazir planned this out. I'm guessing this was his revised plan after Brody foiled the military homecoming plot, but I just don't get how he could have lined everything up. He's able to kidnap Carrie through sheer coincidence, then convince Brody to kill Walden (magically with no inquiry whatsoever), then know the CIA would have a memorial, then know Brody would go to it... I can't get over this part though, even though it doesn't really add up.

    Quinn and Estes: I was fine with Quinn not going through the with shot--I thought it was the first reasonable thing anyone's done on this show in a long time, lol. I get the idea that he's basically a merc and those guys follow orders, but I don't think that was it with him. He's still an agent and he has a convenience, and he knew killing Brody was just Estes covering his ass, not to protect national security. Estes was a dirt bag.


    I'll have to see where all this stuff lands next year. I was kind of over the show going into this season but they turned it around when Saul found that memory card so early in the season, and everything that followed. I wasn't expecting that and it got me excited for the show again. But the whole Carrie/Brody thing is almost too much to look past, as well as the way the finale unfolded (again, depending on where they go with it).

    We shall see...
     
  6. stellie93

    stellie93 Active Member

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    :up:

    :up:

    I really love this show--even the Carrie and Brody parts. I was amazed at the hate here since I thought the hour just flew by. What other show has even 1 actor as good as Saul, Carrie, or Brody?
     
  7. Archangel00

    Archangel00 New Member

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    Rob, you score a bullseye every time you have something to say about the more recent sad state of affairs concerning this show.

    Fringe, to name not only 1 but an equal 3...(plus Astrid makes it 4)
    While we're at it Boss too..
    Hell, let's make it a trifecta, Game of Thrones...

    Please, let's not so quickly forget Andy Whitfield as well. (Spartacus: Blood and Sand)
    (Can't mention that show now, without also naming Batiatus/John Hannah too.)
     
  8. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Active Member

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    Northern...
    To be fair that only helps if you stick a car-bomb under the car. If you take the time to break in and pack under the rear seat with explosives, or swap out the spare tire for a bomb a quick mirror check isn't going to do any good.

    I tend to doubt the explosives got planted after Brody entered the compound because: first - you'd have to sneak them in in some other vehicle, and second - moving packages from one car to another in the CIA parking lot is more likely to attract more attention than simply planting the explosives outside of security. What's the major downside from the terrorists perspective in the unlikely event Brody gets cause trying to smuggle explosives in; they can release the tape anyway. (And depending on how they're triggered possibly take out Brody and the guard gate anyway)

    But yeah, overall this episode bothered me; from the burial at sea in the museum battleship, to simply driving away from the explosion, to teleporting to the Canadian border and back; I'm far less interested in this show than I was at the end of season 1.
     
  9. bob190

    bob190 New Member

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    It's not 24, events aren't happening in real time...

    Earlier in the episode, someone told Saul it would take a few days to get the bodies out of the building. Since in the final scene, Saul was in a makeshift morgue with the bodies, it was pretty obvious a few days had passed when Carrie showed up.
     
  10. Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Active Member

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    Northern...
    Maybe it was the fact that the makeshift morge looked like they'd borrowed the next door gym that made it seem so soon. I assumed (possibly incorrectly) that that was very temporary body staging are before transporting to a proper (cooled) storage. And that with that many bodies still unmoved that it must be pretty early in the search; which means that days couldn't have passed.

    Now possibly that's not what they wanted to convey, but several posters here seem to have gotten that same impression of minimal elapsed time between the explosion and Carrie's return. (Could be it's just poorly conveyed rather than an actual plot hole; but it came off as problematic for whatever reason)
     
  11. Hank

    Hank AC•FTW

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    It's entirely feasible that since they drove to the border that night (10 hours), Carrie could have driven back the following day in time to get to the morgue during daylight hours (the following day). Also add in the time to make the fake ids (an hour or two), she still could have made it back the following day to see Saul in the gym.
     
  12. Bob Coxner

    Bob Coxner Active Member

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  13. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give em Hell, Devils

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    That quote makes it clear that the showrunners are too involved in the story to see how it's actually been presented to the viewing audience. By letting Brody live past this episode, they've already let the tail wag the dog, since the story of Brody has definitely run its course. The relationship between Brody and Carrie isn't a defining pillar of the show - it's an embarassment.
    I got the sense that Dar Adal was formerly on the Ops side of the CIA, but that now he was no longer officially affiliated with the CIA at all and that his team, including Quinn, was a black ops team completely off the books.
     
  14. DeDondeEs

    DeDondeEs Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    For some reason I keep going back to an episode early in the season where Brody is transporting the tailor and he gets the flat tire, and discovers that the jack was missing. Why did that go out of their way to show that? And all of the sudden in this season he was driving that Suburban, where did it come from? My theory is that the explosives were in vehicle for a long time (from the vest?) and perhaps the jack was to show that someone had messed with the vehicle?

    As to who moved the vehicle. What about that agent they at first suspected of moving Nazzir out of his hiding place?
     
  15. DevdogAZ

    DevdogAZ Give em Hell, Devils

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    Listened to a podcast interview with showrunners Alex Gansa (Hollywood Prospectus available at Grantland.com). Couple thoughts:

    1. He said that a properly-medicated Carrie as we saw this year probably lost some of the instincts that made her such a good analyst in the past.

    2. He didn't specifically say how the bomb got in the car, but he did mention that Brody's car sat on the side of the road for many hours when Brody was taken away in the helicopter.
     
  16. busyba

    busyba The Funcooker

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    Fingers crossed! :D
     
  17. busyba

    busyba The Funcooker

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    Doesn't he have an immunity agreement covering all those acts?

    The only thing he can still be held responsible for is the CIA bombing (and the VP assassination of course, but no one suspects him of that).
     
  18. MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

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    Northern...
    Yeah, sure. You think the POTUS is going to hold a press conference saying, "A deal is a deal?" All bets are off. Congress and the public are going to demand blood.
     
  19. SocratesJohnson

    SocratesJohnson New Member

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    24?
     
  20. ElJay

    ElJay Active Member

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    I'm a bit annoyed that the entire hit and run thing with the VP's kid turned out to be a total waste of time. It went nowhere other than being some sort of worthless preaching against how the rich and powerful inhabit the world differently than the rest of us. The kid and his family are dead and the person he hit is dead.
     

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