1. This site uses cookies. By continuing to use this site, you are agreeing to our use of cookies. Learn More.

Homeland S02E12 "The Choice" 12/16/2012

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by robojerk, Dec 17, 2012.

  1. robojerk

    robojerk Active Member

    2,325
    7
    Jun 13, 2006
    Laguna Hills CA
    Sooooo.. That happened. No thread yet, figure I'd make one.

    So Carrie thinks she can just come back after helping him flee?
     
  2. Bob Coxner

    Bob Coxner Active Member

    2,045
    0
    Dec 1, 2004
    There were too many plot holes to count.

    Quinn suddenly falls in love with Carrie and Brody seconds before shooting Brody?

    Estes has balls of steel but becomes a little girl when threatened by Quinn?

    No one bothers to check cars for bombs when they enter CIA headquarters? That's standard procedure at every sensitive building in DC. (The guy with the mirror on a pole that he sticks under the car)

    Every other CIA bigwig was at the ceremony but not Saul? The President doesn't show up for a major event honoring his dead VP?

    Brody's face is on every tv screen and newspaper in the world but a false driver's license will be enough for him to escape?

    Jeez.
     
  3. jehma

    jehma Active Member

    5,166
    0
    Jan 22, 2003
    NJ
    Boring boring boring boring BOOM boring boring
     
  4. Odds Bodkins

    Odds Bodkins Doug's Dad

    525
    0
    Jun 7, 2006
  5. Bob Coxner

    Bob Coxner Active Member

    2,045
    0
    Dec 1, 2004
    Alan Sepinwall's review: http://www.hitfix.com/whats-alan-watching/season-finale-review-homeland-the-choice-this-is-your-life

    And more plot holes occurred to me. You have the biggest terror attack since 9/11. Your prime suspect is Brody. The most the FBI can muster to search the prime suspect's house is 4 agents, who appear to mostly just wander around it and allow his family to stay there while they "search". Sepinwall mentioned a good one - with all the security surrounded the ceremony, no one noticed that a lone car was parked near the building.

    The bombing was near DC. Carrie and Brody drive to the Canadian border. The closest walking across point would be in upstate New York. That's a minimum 9-10 hour drive each way, yet Carrie is back with Saul only a relatively short time after the bombing.

    Dana didn't seem too concerned that Finn was blown up, although she did have a lot on her mind.
     
  6. TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

    17,047
    44
    Aug 6, 2003
    Madison, WI
    Assuming Brody was not lying, I don't think we are supposed to believe that the bomb was actually in the car when he arrived. I think the idea is that someone put the c4 into the car after he parked it, having cleared the security checkpoint. It is unclear why the car was allowed to be parked at the closer location, however.

    Saul had a convenient excuse. Do we actually know that the President wasn't there? Basic writing logic tells us he wasn't (because it was not mentioned or shown) but let's not put it past them to retcon that in next season.

    That's why they were walking across the border, but it does seem unlikely that his fake ID is going to be of much use without any sort of disguise.
     
  7. robojerk

    robojerk Active Member

    2,325
    7
    Jun 13, 2006
    Laguna Hills CA
    They've been hinting about a mole in the CIA for 1.5 seasons now. It makes sense that the mole in the CIA put the explosives in Brody's car and moved it.

    We know Brody did not park there, so we know some of what he says is true. It wouldn't shock me if he was in on it though. He could have conveniently left his car open, with keys in the ignition so the mole could move it.

    Carrie is an idiot thinking Brody is a good man.
     
  8. jehma

    jehma Active Member

    5,166
    0
    Jan 22, 2003
    NJ
    For me, the best scenes in the finale were the ones with Saul. I have no interest in the Carrie/Brody relationship.
     
  9. markp99

    markp99 TakoKichi TCF Club

    11,130
    16
    Mar 21, 2002
    Nashua, NH
    Ugh, I had to FF thru every Brody-Carrie scene; it was burning my eyes + boring, boring, boring as noted above!

    I think I'm out too.

    I may watch, but only if they bring back Saul, Quinn and Dar Adal. No need to bring back Carrie. Hopefully Brody is done, but I guess they need to resolve the story some more...

    :thumbsdown:
     
  10. Hank

    Hank AC•FTW

    20,886
    10
    May 31, 2000
    Boston, MA
    This was a specific CIA memorial for the VP, not a presidential or general one. Wasn't the VP previously the head of the CIA? So that's why they'd memorialize him in a separate ceremony that the President wouldn't attend.

    But yeah, so many plot holes.. and the Carrie+Brody scenes in the cabin made me want to vomit. Carrie just escaped from Nazir, and Brody was there when the VP was killed, and the next day essentially they're off in the woods cavorting like teenagers like nothing ever happened? Come on! I thought for sure they'd be seriously stratagizing about the VP blowback in Brody's direction. Nope - he's free and clear to go off with Carrie.

    Of course,there will be video footage of Carrie and Brody leaving the ceremony minutes before the blast. And Brody's body of course won't be found. Pretty damming, especially after that phone call Brody had telling him how to stay out of the blast zone at the first bombing attempt.

    There's no way they'd make Carrie station chief with this kind of evidence against her, even though she had nothing really to do with it.
     
  11. john4200

    john4200 Active Member

    4,522
    3
    Oct 31, 2009
    This was the CIA. There should also be video of Brody parking his car, then someone else going to his car, putting something in, moving it, and then parking it right outside the window of the auditorium and then leaving.

    Unless a CIA mole managed to cut the video or erase the recording.
     
  12. aadam101

    aadam101 Tell me a joke

    7,029
    0
    Jul 14, 2002
    Massachusetts
    I found it strange that Finn asked about Dana at his dead father's service. You would think HE would have a lot on his mind. I guess it's true what they say about teenage boys.
     
  13. getreal

    getreal postcrastinator

    4,127
    5
    Sep 29, 2003
    Earth
    I loved Saul's line to Carrie: "You're the smartest and the dumbest f-ing person I've ever known." Those were his last words to her before the explosion where he thought she had died.

    And I loved that last scene with Saul saying the prayer amongst the impromptu morgue as Carrie's voice calls to him faintly as a ghost as he continues his prayer, then louder until he turns to see her, alive. Patinkin's acting in that final scene was amazing. He said so much with just his look of tortured relief.

    I can't wait for next season. And if these threads turn into the inevitable moaning and complaining about how awful the show is, then I will just avoid the forum in order to fully enjoy the show on my own.
     
  14. jr461

    jr461 Active Member

    1,274
    17
    Jul 9, 2004
    Northern NJ
    This. By far my favorite character on the show.

    On the other hand, I do not watch with a mindset of finding the plot holes, or even caring that much about what has been mentioned here. While I do recognize some of the issues brought up here, it doesn't detract from my enjoyment of the show (although those prolonged scenes with Carrie and Brody do!).
     
  15. john4200

    john4200 Active Member

    4,522
    3
    Oct 31, 2009
    I'm not sure if that is the carrot or the stick part of the threat. :D
     
  16. ToddNeedsTiVo

    ToddNeedsTiVo Shampoo is not toxic

    634
    0
    Sep 1, 2003
    Ankeny, IA
    The thread name should be corrected, as this was season 2, episode 12.

    The first half of the episode I was lamenting to my wife how I couldn't see how they could keep Brody "in play" as a meaningful character, since things were seemingly done with Nazir. I was ready for Quinn to pull the trigger and lead to a new focus on things next season, in terms of lead male character. Plausibility issues aside, they've at least given themselves several options for Brody.

    I call BS on Carrie and Brody nonchalantly driving away from the bomb scene. Surely the entire complex would have been on INSTANT lockdown.

    I liked her bug out bag. That would almost make Michael Westen blush.

    I'm still wondering why they would use someone like F. Murray Abraham for so little on-screen time. Perhaps there is more to come on that character.

    And now that Carrie has wandered back in so many hours later, much to Saul's relief, she definitely has some splainin' to do about her whereabouts during that time.
     
  17. MikeAndrews

    MikeAndrews Registered abuser

    14,222
    1
    Jan 17, 2002
    Northern...
    I sorta predicted it. As it went along I could see that this was the only way they could carry the "Is he or isn't he?" story onto another season.

    I was looking for Brody to be putting on the vest again.

    The "he is a terrorist!" angle would be a major cheat. There's no way that Brody would have gone along with the video coming out. The bomb and the video was Nazir's way of getting Brody. We have Mike knowing that Brody was talking like he wouldn't be around anymore.

    There is now way in hell that Brody could hide anywhere without meting his face off. He's the most famous villain in the world now. How about the scandal that "THIS GUY WAS APPOINTED TO CONGRESS!!!!!"

    Now we can have Dana's angst as she thinks her father killed her boyfriend. She still could break down with what she knows, maybe attempt suicide.

    Now Saul is the boss. Carrie tries to find evidence of Brody's innocence.

    Oh! If Estes had offed Brody the attack couldn't have happened! Now Quinn and Dar Adal will go after Brody?

    The show did go off the rails...but it didn't have whole lot of ways to go. Sad.
     
  18. TAsunder

    TAsunder Debates Ghee vs Gi

    17,047
    44
    Aug 6, 2003
    Madison, WI
    Although I don't agree that some of the shortcomings of prior episodes were necessary for this episode as some of the show runners indicated, I did enjoy this episode a fair amount and think some of the plot holes weren't THAT bad this episode. I think we are at a point in this show where we are much more aware of plot holes than we should be due to some gaping ones in prior episodes this season. They have lost a fair amount of credibility and as such we are less inclined to employ our suspension of disbelief.

    Looking back, a lot of what happened in season 1 required that suspension of disbelief. I had mostly lost it by the end of season 1 and then regained it during the beginning of season 2 between improved writing and the simple fact of a time lapse.

    I think they moved back towards quality this episode, even if not completely. I am looking forward to season 3 and think they have set up a good framework for it. Contrast this with other shows where we have felt betrayed by the writing -- BSG, for example. I don't have the sense that I simply don't care what happens because the writing is arbitrary and unplanned. It does oscillate a bit, but on the whole it is good TV.

    It is very clear to me that the writing was planned out pretty well, and that the characters still have gravitas (even if some of their interactions don't). I still care about the story much more than I ever did in 24, and much more than in most shows.

    Is it my favorite show on TV right now? No, not any longer -- it was a toss-up with GoT and now GoT clearly stands above it. I also think I like Fringe a bit more which has only gotten better the past 1.5 seasons. Still, it is a very good show, by far the best show on Showtime. I still like it a lot and feel that, though it has stumbled, it hasn't jumped the shark.
     
  19. astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Member TCF Club

    10,055
    40
    Jan 6, 2003
    Houston &...
    Here is a link to a very brief interview with the showrunners. Only mildly spoilery, in a "here's some rough ideas and thoughts for next season" kinda way.

    http://tvline.com/2012/12/17/homeland-season-3-spoilers-damian-lewis-morena-baccarin-snl/

    As to this episode. I liked it. Like most all of us, I kept thinking the last few episodes weren't quite "right". Bad guys doing things that didn't make sense. Like Abu Nazir in the tunnels. And tonight we saw why. The writers were playing the long con on us. And it worked!

    Yeah, you can nitpick a lot of stuff. And some of it *will* have to be revisited (where was Carrie after the explosion, for example). But I'm not interested in looking for small tears in the fabric of reality (Canada too far from DC). I think they did a masterful job in resetting the game/story line. We now know the basics of next season. And we have Saul back!:up:
     
  20. astrohip

    astrohip Well-Known Member TCF Club

    10,055
    40
    Jan 6, 2003
    Houston &...
    Or what TAs said much better, right above me. Posted 30 secs before me.:eek:
     

Share This Page