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Help me decide on a new Premier 4 now or a Premier "5"

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by grey ghost, Feb 27, 2013.

  1. lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,695
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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    If you are willing to sell on E-Bay and keep the packing and box of your new TiVo in a safe place Lifetime is well worth the first upfront cost, I started with a series 1 at a lifetime cost of $199, when I upgraded some 3 years later after the 540040 came out I sold my Series 1 for a net of $300 (lifetime then was then $299) I had the Series 1 TiVo about 3 years, the Series 2 hardware cost was $200 + you got a $150 rebate from TiVo when you activated, so after 3 years of use I paid $50 to upgrade my TiVo, with monthly I would have paid 36 month at $10/month or $360, that $160 more than I paid for just the Lifetime, so you do the math. My last TiVo purchase was the TP-4 750500 at a cost with lifetime of $600 (some people got that deal for $550) and sold my TP on E-Bay for a net of about $490, so this time it cost me about $110 to upgrade. I do keep all the accessories new as I don't need them for the new TiVo (I use a Harmony remote) and keep the box and all the packing so the buyer looks like there getting a new TiVo (I sell it on E-Bay as used).
    Obviously I had to give up some time to do all this, and some people don't have the time or inclination to deal with E-Bay, so for them monthly may be a better deal, but with over 3 years between new TiVo units maybe not.
     
  2. lew

    lew Active Member

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    Mar 12, 2002
    A 6 tuner model is a good bet. Chipset support 6 tuners are available and cable systems are introducing 6 tuner models.The problem is you don't know how long before a new model is introduced. Initially the price of any new model might be high.

    I think people who already have a working S3 unit and are considering upgrading might wait. People who aren't happy with their current DVR, or who don't have a DVR, maybe not.
     
  3. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

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    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    I think the Nautilus is in Groton now. We went there a while ago. Well, I went to the OLD Weaver HS in Hartford. My wife is from East Hartford and my sisters are still near there!

    Anyway, the current bundle with the Stream and MoCA expires next Monday. I wonder if they are going to have a new bundle with the Mini?
     
  4. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

    5,423
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    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    Yes. It's a better bet all around. You could also cycle equipment through, using some of the older stuff on other TVs, without adding monthly fees (other than electric).

    Yup, 571-boat is up the river at the museum. It's pretty cool in general, but I find it boring, as I've been on the 688-class and 774-class boats. :)
     
  5. Mike-Wolf

    Mike-Wolf New Member

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    Feb 25, 2013
    Regardless of how many tuners the TiVo could have, it's dependent on the MSO to have equipment that support all six tuners. For example a lot of CableCARDs are capable of supporting up to six video streams, however if the MSO headend or CableCARD firmware/software isn't configured for it, there is going to be limitations. The Cisco PKM 908 supports up to 8 streams, but don't know of anyone implementing it anywhere yet. http://www.cisco.com/en/US/prod/collateral/video/ps8611/ps8650/ps8651/ol_28628_01.pdf
     
  6. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    19,173
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    Jan 31, 2002
    Northern...
    An eight tuner tiVo would be sweet. A 4TB drive and eight tuners along with some Mini TiVos would be a great whole home solution. Of course I only expect to have six tuners with the next TiVo, which is borderline enough for me.
     
  7. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    37,446
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    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    That's cool. I thought there was some limitation to the CableCARD spec that kept it at 6 tuners max? Guess not.

    6 tuners is more then enough for me. 4 is actually enough for me but 6 would be nice so I could pad everything without concern. But I could see families needing more. 8 tuners would give a family of four 2 tuners each, which would be like everyone having their own TiVo.

    Although if TiVo is going to expand into 6 or 8 tuner units I think they really need to work on user profiles. Having everything thrown into one My Shows list, and keeping track of who's watched what, is a bit chaotic for a family of 4.
     
  8. MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

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    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    My only issue with 1 TIVO and more than 4 tuners is that we are putting all our shows on 1 unit. If I have 2 P4's and a Mini, at least I could keep 1 Tivo's worth of shows if one HDD failed!
     
  9. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    37,446
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    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    Risk vs reward. There is more risk in putting all your shows on one box, but there is also the reward of only having to manage the SP Manager and To Do List of one box and not having to remember which TiVo recorded which show when you're ready to watch.

    I have owned TiVos for >13 years now and have had 2 hard drive failures in that time, both of which were slow enough that I realized what was happening and was able to transfer most of the shows off first. Plus it's just TV. Is there anything you've recorded on your TiVo that you couldn't get via other means if you had to? There are a half dozen legal services that offer TV shows for download or streaming or you can find almost anything via BitTorrent if you don't want to have to pay. Losing a hard drive in a TiVo would suck, but it's hardly the end of the world.
     
  10. lew

    lew Active Member

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    Mar 12, 2002
    I thought the current cable card, and SDV tuner, specifications were "only" for 6 tuner support.

    The fact that a PP "would like" 8 tuners doesn't mean current cable cards support 8 tuners. I don't see tivo releasing an OTA model with 8 tuners while only offering 6 tuner models for the exclusively digital cable models.
     
  11. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    Oct 30, 2003
    Hartford-...
    I think CableCard baked in 6-tuner support, so that the MSO HAS to support that, but if they want to, they can go beyond that, like the 8-tuner thing.
     
  12. P42

    P42 New Member

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    Jan 7, 2003
    01460
    Some people believe TV is a matter of life and death, I am very disappointed with that attitude. I can assure you it is much, much more important than that....or something like that :rolleyes:
     
  13. wmhjr

    wmhjr Well-Known Member

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    Dec 1, 2007
    1) I have a Premier Elite/XL4. Got it not long after the Elite came out. It failed, and was later replaced by an XL4. Also have (still) an HD and a newer Premier. The 4 tuner is clearly less snappy than any of the other boxes. Bringing up "now playing" has the list populate far slower, starting to play a show is slower, the guide is slower, etc. It's not terrible, but it is measurably slower - meaning that from a very very consistent perspective, you could ALWAYS measure how the 4 tuner is demonstrably slower than 2 tuner counterparts. It is certainly possible that it's not just the extra tuners, but is also the extra recorded content for which the device is simply not efficient in indexing and dealing with.

    2) Lifetime vs monthly. There are many reasons why you can debate this. Assuming that current units still relevant (still usable and therefore having value) and you maintain documentation, reselling a unit that you have lifetime on and getting a new one is most likely the best financial decision. However, times are changing and the list of "non support" in terms of features is IMHO changing the game. An HD for example to me, given what Verizon is doing, the lack of stream, the inability to use a mini, seriously reduces its resales value. So, I'm not convinced that the arguments of yesterday are valid moving forward. You would have to narrow your purchase and resale window very narrowly and hope that Tivo does not effectively desupport your existing hardware in order for that argument to be rock solid. For many, that's not worth the risk. For many others, it certainly is.

    3) Since the HD came out, I've had 3 HDs, now 2 Elite/XL4s and a "regular" premier 2 tuner. Every single one was plugged in to a good UPS from the time it was installed (contrary to what Tivo support said I should do). Every single unit failed within 12 months and was replaced, with the exception of the newest "regular" premier. In contrast, not a single other "entertainment" device in my home has failed during that period with the exception of a Toshiba DLP TV. So, until such time as we can truly have a disaster recovery option, I won't be putting all my eggs in one basket. As for whether anything you lose can be replaced otherwise, the answer to that is a resounding NO. Far too much content is simply not available on hulu, etc - not to mention the idea of "slightly" time shifting live sports like NFL games. The problem here is that if you assume everything is available via hulu, etc, then frankly Tivo loses a great deal of its value proposition - as then no device specific subscription or equipment is required any longer. Tivo is only as valuable as it is because of the inability to get much of that content - at least for some of us. Like I've said otherwise, if I can't get that security that what is to be recorded does get recorded and stays that way, then Tivo or anything else similar just lost its primary value proposition for me at least. Not beating on Tivo here. That is exactly the reason I moved from an Adelphia/Comcast SA8300 solution to Tivo back in '07.

    As far as the advantage of having a single now playing list that unifies all of the devices, frankly Tivo should already be doing that rather than forcing a new hardware platform to get what is already available. At least online, we should already be able to manage all of our Tivo "universe" in one spot rather than the very clunky device by device method. At least that's my position. There is no technical reason why that is not possible. Not sure how what exists has been implemented, but Tivo completely controls the API, and with web services, there is no real obstacle that I can fathom.
     

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