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** HD TiVo and HD DirecTV TiVo FAQ **

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by feldon23, Jan 1, 2004.

  1. Jan 12, 2004 #141 of 1440
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the ModeratŠ¾r TCF Club

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    The two Hybrid modes solve that 720p-only or 1080i-only issue for those displays also supporting 480i/480p. Pseudo-native. ;)

    I just would hate being stuck with some cheap scalar in the loop I'm force to use short of manually toggling a setting; I could live with discrete codes to select the setting, but toggles are terribly annoying to use.
     
  2. Jan 12, 2004 #142 of 1440
    Darin

    Darin Way Left

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    I guarantee you if you sat two otherwise identical displays side by side, and had one showing a native 720p picture, while the other was displaying the same 720p source scaled to 1080i (much less 480p), the difference would be readily apparent. I just don't understand why more CRT sets don't include multi-scan capabilities. As I said earlier, if the cheapest CRT computer monitors can do multiscan, why not HD televisions? The lack of a "native resolution" is one of the advantages CRT has over other technologies, it seems that by the time television makers recognized this advantage, CRT sets will be extinct. :( I can't help but wonder if that feature isn't purposely omitted to prevent CRTs from having an upper hand over their much more expensive (and probably more profitable) fixed pixel displays.
     
  3. Jan 12, 2004 #143 of 1440
    Squeak

    Squeak An Inert Gas

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    But then where would you get your TiVo service from? Who would you pay for the TiVo service?

    Since no new TiVo's work (PVR functionality) without service, I would assume that they would not allow the box to become merrily a OTA tuner (no PVR functionality).

    And since this a DirecTV box, I would assume that you would not be able to pay TiVo directly for the SA TiVo service.

    Because of that -- I am almost 100% positive that the box will only work if you are subscribed to DirecTV.
     
  4. Jan 12, 2004 #144 of 1440
    rogo

    rogo Member

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    Darin, not arguing....What I'm saying is since most people's displays >>don't<< do native 720p and any reasonable 1080i (CRTs the latter; fixed pixels the former), most won't miss native output.
     
  5. Jan 12, 2004 #145 of 1440
    Todd76

    Todd76 New Member

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    Most consumers wouldn't understand a word of this conversation. And for that reason it's probably not a very important feature.
     
  6. Jan 12, 2004 #146 of 1440
  7. Jan 13, 2004 #147 of 1440
    feldon23

    feldon23 MythBuster

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    Only because nobody has been asked to write it in a format that is readable. Here's my shot at it, as a part-time technical writer:

    Different HDTV models have different ways of producing a picture, using different technologies such as CRT, LCD, DLP, LCOS, or Plasma. There are 2 different HDTV formats/qualities, called 720p and 1080i.

    ABC, ESPN, and (in the future) Fox use 720p.
    CBS, NBC, HBO, and everyone else uses 1080i.

    These produce roughly the same picture quality but have some Pros and Cons.

    Some HDTVs are designed for 720p and use a converter to play back 1080i.
    Some HDTVs are designed for 1080i and use a converter to play back 720p.
    Most HDTVs are designed for 1080i and cannot play back a 720p signal without help from your satellite/cable receiver.
    And a fortunate few HDTVs natively display both 720p and 1080i in the best possible way.

    Fortunately, the DirecTV HD TiVo can handle all these situations.
     
  8. Jan 13, 2004 #148 of 1440
    MichaelK

    MichaelK New Member

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    i hope that in a few years someone comes up with a progressive scan monitor with 2160 lines. then there would need to be no scaler ever (or a real stupid one).

    If it got a 720 signal then shot each line 3 times if it got a 1080 then show each line twice, bamm no interpolation just basic math. (of course some might argue that it should still interpolate but at least even then you know ever 2nd or 3rd line is correct. (480 eve divides into it by exactly 4 and a half times so thats not such a tough interpolation either).

    This whole scan lines thing gives me a brain hurt. From what i saw shoping for my TV is that many sets dont even have 720 or 1080 lines to begin with so their "native resiloution" is in fact interpolated too. For example the butt kicker top of the line pioneer elite plasmas that their was a showcase on the other day- some of those use 7689 fixed pixels. What the hell is the sense in that? It is always making up data by adding 48 lines of guesses to 720 or throwing out data by deleting 312 lines of a 1080 signal. And i never saw an explanation so for all I know it throws all the incoming data in the blender and makes all 768 lines up and we never get to see what was originally transmitted.
     
  9. Jan 13, 2004 #149 of 1440
    mjones

    mjones Finally! HDTiVO!!!

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    Another good use for native output from an STB is the ability to have a specific device do the scaling.

    For example, the Samsung HLN617w DLP set will accept both 720p and 1080i signals. The display is a 720p native display, but uses a Faroudja for signal conversion. That chipset is arguably one of the best available for signal conversion in the digital domain.

    In my setup I have a Samsung SIRT165 STB which has a physical output selector switch for a single output resolution connected to my Samsung DLP. Nearly every HD program I watch is on CBS which broadcast a 1080i native signal. If I set the STB to output 720 (which most people would recommend because it is the native resolution of the display) CBS looks 'horrible' compared to the following alternative. Set the STB to output 1080i (native resolution of the broadcast) and let the DLP do the side-conversion to 720p via the Faroudja chipset, this method looks far superior.

    The problem then works in reverse. With the STB in 1080i and watching ABC (720p native), the STB performs the conversion (from 720p to 1080i) then the TV converts it again (from 1080i back to 720p) and ABC also looks 'horrible.'

    Fortunately for me, I pretty much only watch CBS and NBC (1080i native) so I leave the STB set to 1080i letting my DLP side-convert to its native resolution of 720p. With the switch on the back of the STB, I almost never even bother watching 720p native shows.

    Therefore, I would love to have native passthrough, but it wouldn't be a deal breaker for me either (due to my viewing habbits)

    Mike
     
  10. Jan 13, 2004 #150 of 1440
    rogo

    rogo Member

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    I don't know if this was posted but hitting the Up Arrow on the peanut will cycle the resolutions for you; no menus required.

    Mark
     
  11. Jan 13, 2004 #151 of 1440
    feldon23

    feldon23 MythBuster

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  12. Jan 13, 2004 #152 of 1440
    BrettStah

    BrettStah Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    My guess is that it would work while playing back anything live or pre-recorded. That would make the most sense. And shouldn't interfere with any menu operations that way. If that's the way it works, that'd be acceptable for my household... this way I could turn on a TV upstairs, flip to the channel of the HD-Tivo (from my channel modulation system), and if I don't see a picture I can just press the up arrow a few times. (Maybe after pressing Live TV first).
     
  13. Jan 13, 2004 #153 of 1440
    hongcho

    hongcho .

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  14. Jan 13, 2004 #154 of 1440
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

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  15. Jan 13, 2004 #155 of 1440
    BrettStah

    BrettStah Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Consumers will be buying a DirecTV box. 99.9% won't care if the box was manufactured by Solitron in Mexico, etc. as long as it works.
     
  16. Jan 13, 2004 #156 of 1440
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

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    This consumer will. I wonder if there will be a way to tell the difference.
     
  17. Jan 13, 2004 #157 of 1440
    rogo

    rogo Member

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    Anytime you are watching TV; live or recorded. It's in the latest iteration of the software. It does the courtesy of putting up a little on-screen indicator.

    It's a "cycle" between the four resolutions; the DirecTV rep wasn't sure if there were hidden discrete codes that might be usable....
     
  18. Jan 14, 2004 #158 of 1440
    Rocket Surgeon

    Rocket Surgeon New Member

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    My first Sony DirecTV unit (circa 1997: cost $650) had a radio frequency (not IR) remote, which enabled me to hide the unit in a cabinet but still control channels. That was a great feature. Anyone know of any manufacturers that are planning to offer RF remotes with HD TiVo? The IR leapfrog systems just don't cut it. Too slow and not responsive all the time.
     
  19. Jan 14, 2004 #159 of 1440
    Darin

    Darin Way Left

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    I have an older Sony receiver that will do RF too, and most Dish PVRs will do RF. Don't know why it hasn't caught on with TiVo. Believe it or not, I've actually heard good things about these remote extenders. Not as nice has having it built in to the unit, but apparently they work pretty well. I'm thinking of trying it out when they come out with a AAA version.
     
  20. Jan 14, 2004 #160 of 1440
    feldon23

    feldon23 MythBuster

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    Thanks, Hong.

    I'm adding these to the FAQ and hosting them on my website to ensure availability.
     

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