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** HD TiVo and HD DirecTV TiVo FAQ **

Discussion in 'DirecTV TiVo Powered PVRs & Receivers' started by feldon23, Jan 1, 2004.

  1. Jul 17, 2004 #761 of 1440
    mrmrlawrence

    mrmrlawrence New Member

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    Jul 8, 2004
    Thanks again. No splitters with the destacker. I did detach the antennae connection and reset the satellite on the unit. Transponder 18 no longer registers, so that must have been some sort of late night anomaly. Still, no right side of 101(A) the unit states, so no functionality.

    If you think it helpful, I can also go into the closet and get the names and types of stackers and in line amps and splitter that are used on the way to my units wiring. When I looked last night, they were wide band splitters. What also is odd is that the Sony B-50 worked fine win the set up, so I am not really sure what the HD DVR is sensing that is different.

    In the meantime, I will open up the wall and see if there is a non-wideband splitter used to feed the second cable connection internal to my unit somewhere in the signal path.
     
  2. Jul 17, 2004 #762 of 1440
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

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    If the same connection is used successfully with the Sony B50 receiver then it should work with this destacker.

    If you reverse the two connections from the destacker do you see the same problem? If you have the B50 receiver, or there's a neighbor you know with one, can you check the feed coming into your unit to be sure it works OK with a known-good receiver working elsewhere? If it works, then the same receiver should also work connected to the destacker, and then if that works there must be an issue with your HR10-250. If it doesn't work, then the destacker is at fault.
     
  3. Jul 17, 2004 #763 of 1440
    mrmrlawrence

    mrmrlawrence New Member

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    What do you mean by reverse the connections on the destacker? I will trouble shoot accordingly, and I have a known working B50, so I will install and check what its read says on antennaes,
    thanks..
     
  4. Jul 17, 2004 #764 of 1440
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

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    Your dual destacker has two outputs, one for each tuner; I was just wondering if you get the same problem when you have the outputs wired to opposite tuners from where you tried originally.
     
  5. Jul 17, 2004 #765 of 1440
    mrmrlawrence

    mrmrlawrence New Member

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    Doug: I appreciate your input. I have put together every possible permutation using the destacker, the hr10-250 and the Sony B-50.

    What I have found is that if I attach the cable from my wall directly into the B-50, I get most of the transponders. Also, if I use a diplexer (2 mHz) and use the satellite output from the diplexer, I get the same result.

    However, if I plug the B-50 into one of the outputs of the destacker, and input into the destacker the direct wall feed or the diplexer feed, I only get the odd transponders.

    Further, if I plug the HR-10 to the destacker or directly to the wall, I only get the odd transponders.

    All this leads me to believe that maybe the stacking is going on in some odd frequency range. A range that the B50 or the HD-HTL can handle, and the destacker or HR10-250 cannot?

    Not sure how I would proceed. FYI, also, I checked both the A and B outputs of the destacker.......
     
  6. Jul 17, 2004 #766 of 1440
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

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    Doug. Your knowledge of sat systems seems endless. Do you work in the business?
     
  7. Jul 17, 2004 #767 of 1440
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

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    What diplexer brand/part are you using? Have all your tests had the diplexer between the wall and the destacker? Does your Sony receiver work with the destacker between the wall and the Sony satellite input? Just want to make sure the destacker you have is passing the high frequencies.

    Your Sony A55/B55 works. If the destacker worked, the Sony would work attached to the destacker output. I'm wondering if you need to rerun through the satellite dish setup though, since it'd have last been configured to see a stacked signal. The manual isn't clear (they mention a "signal seeker pop up" but don't say what that's about, however since it's only popping up when a round antenna is selected, I'd bet this is the step), but I'd guess it needs to decide how to access the satellite signal.

    If you're using the cables enclosed with the destacker to connect between it and the receiver, maybe trying a different cable is worth a go. But I'd be hard pressed to think both are bad or that a bad cable could prevent the even transponders from getting selected. But you've come this far trying things... :)
     
  8. Jul 17, 2004 #768 of 1440
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

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    No, I don't work in the business, however I've always had a high interest in satellite systems, dating all the way back to my first C/Ku-band "big dish" system, so I've had a lot of experience, and love gadgets so am always interested in such things; and if you're interested in something, you suck the knowledge up everywhere it comes. :)
     
  9. Jul 18, 2004 #769 of 1440
    mrmrlawrence

    mrmrlawrence New Member

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    Doug: Your expertise has allowed me to continue this much further than I would have alone. Equipment:
    I am using an ASKA 40-2150 MHz diplexer which has both a SAT and an ANT output.

    The dual destacker I tried to use (from 9th Tee) was a D575D. As I mentioned, while my B-50 worked either connected directly to the wall or from the SAT output of the diplexer, it did not work when connected to the destacker.

    I tired resetting the HR10-250 after connecting only the output of the diplexer to the HR10, but still only getting the odd transponders. I also did the same reset when directly connecting the HR10 to the wall. Same issue.

    To summarize: It seems like certain high frequencies are not passing through the destacker, as the B-50 won't work with it.

    Further, it seems the HR-10 can't pick up certain frequencies, as it will not work with the same feed that the B-50 does work on.

    Any thoughts? Could this still be a DC issue, or is this an issue whereby I need some specialized destacker?

    Thanks again.
     
  10. Jul 18, 2004 #770 of 1440
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

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    Did you rerun the satellite dish setup on the B50 when the unit was hooked up to the destacker? I think it needs to detect that the signal isn't stacked; right now, your B50 is configured for a stacked signal, so it won't work right with a regular unstacked signal.

    Here's another way you might be able to ensure it's configured for a regular unstacked signal:

    (got this online, and the info was sketchy, so I might be missing something) go into the hidden menu (press down arrow and menu -- I guess on the front panel -- maybe hold them down for up to 15-20 seconds); there's a setting on the antenna menu that'll be "wide". Change that to whatever the other setting is (maybe "narrow"). This should change the receiver to work with a non-stacked signal. Verify it by hooking it up directly to the wall and you should not get the even transponders. Then hook it up to the destacker and see if the receiver can get all transponders.

    I've never heard of a customized/properietary stacking setup so I'm still of the mindset that the issue here is the destacker you've got isn't working. The D575d is definately doing the same thing the built-in destacking of the Sony receivers. I see lots of people referencing them online, so I'm confident that in general the D575d works if a B50 works on the stacked signal. So I just want to find out if we can get the B50 to work with the destacker. If we can, then the HR10-250 you have has a problem. If we can't, then I think the destacker you have isn't working.

    If all else fails, I suppose it's worth a look at what stacking equipment is in use. If you have access to wherever it's installed, can you get the manufacturer/model #'s on that equipment?
     
  11. Jul 18, 2004 #771 of 1440
    mrmrlawrence

    mrmrlawrence New Member

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    Doug: I will try to access the service menu tonight on the B-50 so that we can determine whether the destacker or the HR10-250 is at issue. quick question as I am away from the unit at the moment, does the hr10-250 have a service menu that may be helpful in resolving this issue?
     
  12. Jul 18, 2004 #772 of 1440
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

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    Pressing INFO & RIGHT on the front panel brings up the system diagnostics menu.
     
  13. Jul 18, 2004 #773 of 1440
    mrmrlawrence

    mrmrlawrence New Member

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    Jul 8, 2004
    Doug:
    Went to the B50 diagnostics menu, set it to the non wideband setting, and voila, only the odd transponders. Hooked up the destacker, and it helped none. So I am assuming that the destacker must be the issue here? Do you agree?

    Too bad the HR10 does not have an internal destacker. I am assuming that I either have a bad destacker or that this destacker is inappropriate because it is not passing wideband? Any thoughts?

    This experience has been a real learning experience thanks to you. Thank you.

    As an aside, do you know (can you explain) why diplexers extend to 2150 MHz, but the destackers tend to cut off at 2025 MHz? Why the extra headroom in the diplexer?
     
  14. Jul 19, 2004 #774 of 1440
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

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    I'd say your destacker is bad. I do believe if the destacker were working, it'd function properly on your system. I'd suggest getting it replaced. It *might* be worth calling the manufacturer's tech support... it's a stretch, but maybe you need to place a DC block between the wall and the destacker.

    I doubt there's much rhyme or reason to the extra range of the diplexer; probably just a factor of the choice of components inside, or playing it safe to ensure there's no premature cutoff/degradation of the signal that needs to be passed. I suppose there might be cases where there's a little wider range of signal from some LNB's used on other satellite bands, too.
     
  15. Jul 19, 2004 #775 of 1440
    mrmrlawrence

    mrmrlawrence New Member

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    Jul 8, 2004
    I will keep you informed. It sounds like the first order of businesses is to get the replacement destacker. I will follow up with tech support to see if a DC blocker might help.

    Why, btw, would DC present a problem to the external destacker, but not create a problem with the Sony B-50? Logic would dictate, per what I am learning from you that if no dc blocker is required for the B-50, it would not be needed for the destacker, no?

    Thanks for the troubleshooting.
     
  16. Jul 19, 2004 #776 of 1440
    Budget_HT

    Budget_HT Heavy User (of TiVo)

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    I have faint memories of destacker posts where the two outputs of the destacker (don't recall which type or brand) had to be fed into a multiswitch to make the even and odd transponders available to each output tap of the multiswitch.

    IIRC, each destacker output is EITHER even or odd transponders, not both. The Sony receivers were built to handle this internally. Other receivers needed the help of a multiswitch to make all transponders available.

    I could be WAY off here, but perhaps you need a 2xN multiswitch between your destacker and any receiver except the Sony that was made to work directly with the stacked signals.

    You may want to do a search here on the TiVo forum for Feldon or feldoncentral, since I believe he is using a stacker/destacker arrangement (or used to). He published some diagrams showing how to connect everything together successfully.

    Sorry if my memories are weak here, but I read through the posts because they were interesting, but I had no personal need for stacking/destacking, so I did not commit things to memory like I might have if I had actually used the equipment myself.

    Good luck!
     
  17. Jul 19, 2004 #777 of 1440
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

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    The receiver could have a DC block built in that's active in wideband mode. I did say it was a stretch. ;) The HR10-250 does suffer problems when the antenna connection has DC voltage present, and a DC block is required there (the Terk diplexer being the only diplexer I've ever seen that doesn't have a DC block built in).

    Anyway I'd doubt DC voltage could be an issue on the satellite inputs, since the configuration of the typical stacked setup would likely effectively isolate DC anyway, via the splitters used to distribute the stacked signal.
     
  18. Jul 19, 2004 #778 of 1440
    mrmrlawrence

    mrmrlawrence New Member

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    Jul 8, 2004
    I would assume that what is output from a destacker is dependent on the destacker itself. For example, the Sonora dual destacker I am using should be outputting even and odd transponders?

    What I can't reconcile with the post with Budget HT is why the Sony failed to work with the destacker in standard mode.

    Actually, I think I am lost really. Not sure what a multiswitch gets you....
     
  19. Jul 19, 2004 #779 of 1440
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the Moderatоr TCF Club

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    There are destackers that simply separate the original two signals back to their original frequencies. These would then be fed into a multiswitch.

    Your Sonora D575d essentially has a built-in 3x2 multiswitch and the outputs to each receiver will send out either of the two source satellite signals based on the voltage the receiver sends. If it worked right. :)

    I think the safe bet is your D575d destacker is broken.
     
  20. Jul 20, 2004 #780 of 1440
    Budget_HT

    Budget_HT Heavy User (of TiVo)

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    Doug:

    Based on your clarification of the internal multiswitch in the Sonora D575d, I now understand your description and opinions and agree with your assessment of the problem.

    Thanks for clearing it up for me. I knew there had to be a multiswitch function, I just never realized that it was provided internally in the D575d.
     

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