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Hard Drive Upgrade Info

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by amseven11, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. Sportsnut

    Sportsnut New Member

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    Apr 11, 2014
    Thanks for the info, I've been looking to upgrade but prefer to buy from Amazon and have them pricematch this if possible. The link shows the current deal and I can see this is coming at 3 but how did you find the price for this deal?

    Do you know how long the shell shocker deals last? If this starts at 6PM Eastern time I'll be coaching my son's baseball game then so I may miss the deal.
     
  2. A J Ricaud

    A J Ricaud Active Member

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    Jun 25, 2002
    Hacienda...
    It expires at 5:59 PM PT. If I remember right, you are asked to opt in to their "Shell Shocker Deal Previews" and daily sales after you buy something from them. I imagine you can go on their website and sign up, too.
     
  3. Sportsnut

    Sportsnut New Member

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    Apr 11, 2014
    Thanks, that should be enough time to order. I get their daily e-blast deal emails and have bought from them in the past but don't remember seeing that option, though I haven't bought anything from them in a while.
     
  4. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    You beat me to sharing the deal. I ordered the max of three. Hopefully some others got to snap some of these up. I just barely got my order placed in time.

    I'm going back to AV-GP, partly because of this deal, and partly due to a recent issue that is described over here: http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=517733

    It's likely not related to me using WD Red NAS drives. But, I would rather just go back to AV-GP (I hope cloning with DD Rescue will let me change drives without losing everything, since I'm not changing the capacity). TiVo's SMART tests don't play well with my Red NAS, and I have a use for the Red NAS drives, once I can (hopefully) get them re-acquired giving me a total of 5x3TB for a NAS & RAID project.

    From the thread, regarding my issues with one base-Roamio, out of three:

    I had to try KS57&58, Clear the Program Info & to Do list, repeat KS57&58 (also did a KS54 SMART value check and short test), disconnect the cable coax to the TiVo, disconnect the USB cable to the TA, disconnect the network cable, permanently delete everything in the deleted items folder, delete all my ARWLs, delete any programs related to the ARWLs, then do another clearing (all things possible short of a full C&DE, and nuking all my recordings), hook up the network cable during the second clearing, hook up the coax, power on the TA, wait 5 minutes, connect the USB cable to the TA, then go to sleep, to find all is well the following morning. To keep things accurate, that morning was just a couple hours ago, after staying awake very long trying so many things.

    This is the short version of describing it, as was my first post to the OP.

    All seems well again, so far.

    Just like you seem to be thinking, I was also thinking corrupted guide data and/or databases, etc. It all started off with reboots around the times it would be downloading and installing things during scheduled TiVo service connections.

    I just ordered three WD30EURX drives from NewEgg, allowing me to put AV-GP drives in my Roamios, and giving me back the WD Red NAS drives I have been using, to use for computer applications (win-win, since the 3Tb AV-GPs were a NewEgg shellshocker today).

    I found it interesting that NewEgg is now designating the AV-GP drives as older models, and the "newer version" link brings you to the WD Purple equivalent.

    Any thoughts on the WD Purple, or if NewEgg is right about them being the new models to phase-out the AV-GP EURX drives, like how the EURS was considered the old version, and the EURX the new version?

    I know that EURS drives work more than fast enough for all current, and past, TiVo models, making the EURX just a (well we pretty much know what it is).

    I don't think the Purple will be bringing anything truly new to the table, unless TiVo starts using the true ATA-streaming features command set. I doubt they ever will, making the Purple just more expensive, and not making the TiVo experience any better.

    I did take note that the Purple can have the TLER and other parameters tweaked. Any thoughts on that?

    I don't want to hijack this thread, so I'll probably start a WD Purple thread. Feel free to PM me if you also don't wish to threadjack.
     
  5. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    $119.99 Total cost (See * note at bottom for important info, on my experience, when using these in a TiVo).

    http://www.newegg.com/Product/Produ...014-Index-_-InternalHardDrives-_-22236344-L0C

    Western Digital Red NAS Hard Drive WD30EFRX 3TB IntelliPower 64MB Cache SATA 6.0Gb/s 3.5" Internal Hard Drive

    Extra savings w/ promo code EMCPEHW23, ends 5/26
    3 out of 5 eggs (492) | Write a Review
    In stock. Limit 5 per customer.

    Expanded NAS solutions
    Next generation experience-for home or small office network attached storage systems
    Premium dedicated 24/7 support line
    3 year limited warranty

    * These are what I'm currently using. The only issue I can attribute to using these drives, for TiVo use, is that the only base Roamio built-in KS54 SMART tests that will work/complete (for me, on three base Roamios) are reading the values, quick test (2 minute), and conveyance test (5 minutes). The longer tests will go on running for days, without ever indicating completion. If attached to a PC, all the tests will work and verify completion.
     
  6. Sportsnut

    Sportsnut New Member

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    Apr 11, 2014
    I almost forgot about the deal but was still able to order well after 10 ET. I think the deal was good for the rest of the day since there was no expiration time when I ordered, it just said Today. The price is back up to 135 but I'm sure it will be on sale again for anybody that missed out. That's the lowest price I've seen yet for the 3TB. I tried to get Amazon to pricematch but had no luck there, but it's cheaper there now.
     
  7. Sportsnut

    Sportsnut New Member

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    Apr 11, 2014
  8. mrsean

    mrsean Member

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    May 15, 2006
    New Jersey
    Has no one gotten their hands on a Weaknees 4TB drive and reverse engineered whatever they did to it to make it work in the Roamio yet?
     
  9. telemark

    telemark New Member

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    Nov 12, 2013
  10. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    Somebody was trying to sell his reverse engineered WK 4Tb drive information for $20, people on this Forum though that to be immoral to sell somebody's else's work.
     
  11. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    IIRC, that person just DD-style cloned to an image file and compressed it. That's not "reverse engineering", IMHO.

    They seemed to think that if they only sold enough copies to get their money back, it was A-OK. Then, they threatened to just go on ebay/craigslist, when the forum members with morals disapproved.

    It was so nice how quickly and cleanly that thread died.

    Here's to hoping it doesn't become reborn within this thread...
     
  12. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    CT
    Is their a moral difference between "reverse engineering" and a "DVD copy (ISO file)" both that can be used by anybody to make up a Roamio 4Tb drive from the work that WK did ??
     
  13. nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    As far as I am concerned, and how I see things: No.

    I wasn't trying to defend the person, or draw lines. I believe they considered what they were doing to be "reverse engineering", while I didn't see it that way.

    It's a gray-area, when it comes to these things. The 3rd-party drives are sold without the buyer agreeing to any TOS/EULA, nor is there any notice enclosed saying "reverse engineering, cloning, or resale is prohibited". I also don't see anything stating that a prepped drive must be purchased for each and every TiVo the buyer owns. I'm not saying this makes it right, or moral, to do such things. It's just some observations I'm sharing.

    I have suspicions that TiVo legal may have made the no TOS/EULA part of an agreement (if one exists), for those who ask permission to sell upgrades. Technically, and realistically, WK makes their images by reverse-engineering what TiVo made to begin with.

    TiVo's software is built on open-source software/code, which they have made proprietary. There's a term for it: Tivoization. There's a wikipedia page on it: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tivoization

    If somebody asked me how to clone a prepped drive, for another TiVo they owned (or just to retain a virgin image), I'd likely advise them how to do it, and recommend against doing it for anything more than their own personal use. Some may find this immoral, and see it as cheating WK, and/or stealing/theft. In this day/age, where almost everything has warnings about what you are not allowed to do with it, I find it interesting, the absence of that with 3rd-party images/drives.

    I really don't want this subject matter to get another run. It always goes the same way. There's polar-opposite opinions, bickering, pitchforks & torches, and it always ends without a consensus, and the opposites go back to their corners.

    I probably just raised another batch of questions people can ask, and try to paint me in a certain light with. I think I've said enough. I don't want to dig my own grave, or spend a week defending my moral stances.

    Realistically, technically, and legally, I think it's possible that TiVo holds more rights to what is on any prepped drive, than the 3rd-parties selling them.
     
  14. telemark

    telemark New Member

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    Nov 12, 2013
    > Is their a moral difference between "reverse engineering" and a "DVD copy (ISO file)" both that can be used by anybody to make up a Roamio 4Tb drive from the work that WK did ??

    There is a significant legal difference.

    Reverse engineering is a legally defined and approved method to develop a compatible work, without copying the original product. Doing it properly sidesteps copyright protection and trade secret protection.

    Copying the work is a violation of the rights of the copyright owner. Respecting this right is imperative, otherwise there's no reason to expend the effort in the reverse engineering. This translates to Reverse Engineering honors copyright, but Copying violates it.

    Those really interested:
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Clean_room_design

    To fully analyze the morality of this, you would have to include governmental policy against monopolistic restrictions against competitors creating compatible products in a capitalistic economy.

    (ala, AT&T telephones, IBM PC-compatibles, printer cartridges, universal garage door openers, 3rd party video games, and an absurd amount of auto-parts)

    > Realistically, technically, and legally, I think it's possible that TiVo holds more rights to what is on any prepped drive, than the 3rd-parties selling them.

    That can be true, depending on what's on the image and how it was made. There's different type of images and different methods even if they end up bit identical.

    > I have suspicions that TiVo legal may have made the no TOS/EULA part of an agreement (if one exists), for those who ask permission to sell upgrades.

    I leaned the opposite way. If WK had a redistribution license from Tivo itself, it would have come with notice requirements. The fact that WK does not spell out it's legal standing or process, implies it's just as gray as any other vendor.
     
  15. lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    CT
    If reverse engineering is used, as you said above, to develop a compatible work, without copying the original product I am in full agreement with you, but if reverse engineering is used to produce a computer program that makes up a TiVo drive, no different than the original, the issue is not so clear, at least to me. I don't think there can be any copyright issue with putting a blank 3Tb or smaller drive into a Roamio and having the Roamio format that drive, as that would be a TiVo made drive copy.
     
  16. Jun 1, 2014 #1776 of 3288
    rgr

    rgr Member

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    Feb 21, 2003
    WD30PURX?

    Went to Newegg looking for the WD30EURX and the WD30PURX showed up as "click here to find newer model"

    Anybody know anything about these Purple drives? Compatibility, power consumption, etc?
     
  17. Jun 1, 2014 #1777 of 3288
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    It's more expensive.
     
  18. Jun 1, 2014 #1778 of 3288
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    I saw that as well, and reported it in at least two threads. Nobody made a comment.

    They are the WD Purple line. It's basically a cross-breeding of WD AV-GP with WD Red NAS, with more settings that can be tweaked, like TLER.

    All the links you need to know all that I know can be found by spending some time skimming through the NewEgg pages for it.

    When I first spotted the EURX as "old model" and PURX as "newer model', I spent a few days researching. The Purple seems to be a bad idea for TiVo, going by WD's own data sheets and marketing. PURX drives are meant for AV-processing raid arrays. Using a single drive was not recommended, leading me to wonder if the AV-GP is really going to go EOL.

    Both the AV-GP and the Red NAS are video capable dives, while the AV-GP is more tuned for single-drive AV, and the Red NAS is more tuned for NAS, using one drive, or an array of drives.

    Given the way the Red NAS couldn't be firmware updated to the NASware 2.0, if they were too old, I'd steer clear of purple, just in case they find it needs a 2.0 firmware, that might only be available on v2.0.

    Customer satisfaction with the Red NAS v1 drives was not very good, but went to awesome with v2.
     
  19. Jun 6, 2014 #1779 of 3288
    sksjedi

    sksjedi New Member

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    May 8, 2014
  20. Jun 6, 2014 #1780 of 3288
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    CT
    For DIY people that true now, but WK does have a 4Tb solution, and others are working on a DIY solution for Roamio 4Tb drives, for sometime in the future. See http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=516898
     

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