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Hard Drive Upgrade Info

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by amseven11, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. Dec 3, 2013 #1461 of 3265
    BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Active Member

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    Also remember that the specified temperatures are just for the ambient air around them. The parts themselves are typically allowed to be hotter.

    It still looks like it's plenty cool enough in there, so as long as the power supply can handle a 7200 rpm drive then temperature shouldn't be a concern. So if you happen to have one lying around, you should be able to use it.

    If you're buying a new one just for the Roamio, I'd recommend a 5400/5900 rpm drive just to be extra cautious. But manufacturers are hiding which drives are low rpm. We know green and A/V drives are low rpm, but you can also compare the power consumption between different models to figure that out.
     
  2. Dec 3, 2013 #1462 of 3265
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    Where that can get sticky, is when/where the ambient temp/airflow temp varies. The TiVo Roamio base is such a case in the worst way. Everything else that produces heat gets the room temp air first, and by the time it gets to the drive, it's heated from cooling the rest. Changes in room temp, plus the workload of the TiVo, and even the placement/elevation of the TiVo in the room, or in a cabinet, can make one person's measurements nearly useless to another, unless a lot of calculating is done on precision measurements, with precision explanation of the measurements.

    Also, whether or not the drive specs ambient, or actual drive temperatures, varies by manufacturer, and sometimes differs between different lines/models by the same manufacturer.
     
  3. Dec 4, 2013 #1463 of 3265
    BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Active Member

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    There are all those variations, yet surprisingly they don't have any significant impact. These variations are small, and the rise in the temperatures of the components is surprisingly linear in commercial and consumer electronics. I get paid to test them in a temperature chamber, so I do, but I can always take the room temperature values and predict what the temperatures of all the internal components will be at the maximum operating temperature, and it is always accurate within 2 C.

    The specified ambient (external) operating temperature for previous Tivos was 15 C to 35 C. I'm assuming the Roamio is the same (I can't find it online). There's 25 C of margin for the hard drive, and there's no way the inside of that box gets 25 C hotter than the outside. There's simply too much ventilation. Other users have said their Roamio Basic's reported temperatures in the upper 30s and mid 40s, and have also reported that the PCB side (where the temp. sensor is most likely located) is hotter than the hard drive side.

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9814257

    Basically, (no pun intended), I'm not worried. Use any hard drive you have on hand, or buy the cheapest one with the best warranty (which will most likely be a "green" drive anyway).
     
  4. Dec 4, 2013 #1464 of 3265
    chrispitude

    chrispitude New Member

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    Popped the 3TB WD Red in, and it powered right up - awesome! Oh... wait... I never did back up the season passes in kmttg, did I?

    Out comes the screwdriver again...
     
  5. Dec 5, 2013 #1465 of 3265
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Northern...
    I know from first hand experience with my Romaio Pro, that is can handle eleven concurrent HD read/write streams. But that is the max I can test. Six recordings, one recordng being played, and streams being sent to four TiVos. And from what I've read the Romaio Pro is using the WD AV-GP drive. So without the active ATA Streaming Command Set extensions it's still handling eleven concurrent HD streams out of the 12 the spec sheet says it can handle.
     
  6. Dec 5, 2013 #1466 of 3265
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    John's...
    You should be able to start at least one more stream - a transfer from/to computer.
     
  7. Dec 5, 2013 #1467 of 3265
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    I get what you are saying, and where you are coming from.

    I never said that many streams weren't possible. I just meant the advertised stream specs are important for people/entities that use the ATA Streaming Command Set extensions, which the Roamio, and all TiVos that came before it do not use.

    TiVo streams without using those extensions, and apparently it still works fine for TiVo, based on your observations (and my own research). If TiVo used the extensions, non-AV drives would not work at all. We know that they do.

    You might ask "How do I know for sure, that even with an AV drive installed the Roamio doesn't use them, just because a non-AV drive works?". In a team effort, with a couple other very qualified people, we came to the conclusion that it's not a matter of a non-AV drive working by being in some sort of "compatible" or "fallback" mode, TiVo just hasn't had a need to use the extensions, so they aren't going to rewrite their code for something they don't need.

    It might very well be possible that due to the way TiVo writes the data, even though it's written as any old data, their method could yield an equal, or greater number of streams, than what the drive specs say is supported using the extensions.

    I never meant to come across as argumentative when I replied to your original post talking about stream specs. I just like to share what I know, especially when I've put a lot of time and effort into gaining such knowledge.

    My posts on the subject were intended as an augmentation to your posts, not a disagreement.
     
  8. Dec 5, 2013 #1468 of 3265
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    Did the same thing with the same drive, but I first ran the setup on the original drive to make sure all was well with the Roamio+ and the setup updated the software, normal, when I then put in the new 3Tb red drive the TiVo I did not have to update the software again so I guess the software is updated in the ROM on the MB, did not know that.
     
  9. Dec 6, 2013 #1469 of 3265
    headless chicken

    headless chicken Member

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    I have a precision screw driver set with small philips and flat heads. Can those be used or just the T8 and T10 to open up the plus?
     
  10. Dec 6, 2013 #1470 of 3265
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,697
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    CT
    For the small cost of a T10 and T15 don't try anything but the T tools.
     
  11. Dec 6, 2013 #1471 of 3265
    ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay

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    To be more specific, its TORX drivers
     
  12. Dec 6, 2013 #1472 of 3265
    ggieseke

    ggieseke Active Member

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    The Kernel, Boot and Root partitions on a Roamio are just empty 4K placeholders. All of the Linux OS is in a 4GB flash chip on the motherboard.

    The /var, Swap and SQLite partitions are actually on the drive. That makes sense to me since they're written to frequently while the OS is mostly read-only except for updates.
     
  13. Dec 6, 2013 #1473 of 3265
    headless chicken

    headless chicken Member

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    It was $17 plus tax for a Torx set, but they were needed as precision screwdrivers were a nonstarter.

    My Roamio Plus had a 1TB green drive inside. I thought the plus came with a 2TB drive and the pro with a 3TB drive??
     
  14. Dec 6, 2013 #1474 of 3265
    gonzotek

    gonzotek tivo_xml developer

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    Outside...
    Nope, it's 1TB for the Plus and 3TB for the Pro-- TiVo markets them as storing "up to" 150 hours and 450 hours. The basic Roamio has a 500GB drive, marketed as up to 75 hours.
     
  15. Dec 6, 2013 #1475 of 3265
    HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    Paradise...
    Nope, basic is 500GB, plus is 1TB and pro is 3TB.
     
  16. Dec 6, 2013 #1476 of 3265
    HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

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    Paradise...
    Hahaha I love it I just jinxed with Gonzo, a lifelong dream since I watched muppets as a lil' tike!
     
  17. Dec 6, 2013 #1477 of 3265
    gonzotek

    gonzotek tivo_xml developer

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    Outside...
    Ha :) There's a ScooterBoy active on TCF too. :D
     
  18. Dec 6, 2013 #1478 of 3265
    headless chicken

    headless chicken Member

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    Oct 8, 2004
    Gotcha. Thanks for the clarification.

    I think I screwed up. I removed the metal side railings with the T10 after unplugging the cable from the original drive, and now I can't get the new drive to sit properly back in place because the drive is at an angle. I'm scared of scratching something on the motherboard. Any words of wisdom on how to proceed?

    I should have realized I would run into difficulty. I'm so grossly incompetent when it comes to tinkering with hardware. :(
     
  19. Dec 6, 2013 #1479 of 3265
    HarperVision

    HarperVision TiVo's Italian Cuz!

    5,275
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    May 14, 2007
    Paradise...
    One side of the drive uses the upper holes and the other uses the lower holes. If you used the same (upper or lower) on both sides it will cause what you describe, the "Leaning Terabyte of Pisa-crap" ;)
     
  20. Dec 6, 2013 #1480 of 3265
    jmbissell

    jmbissell Member

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    Dec 4, 2006
    Greenville, SC
    Thanks for this post updating the OP's info. It saved me a lot of time, esp. your description of removing the cover. I had the 500GB Seagate out of my Roamio Basic and the new WD AV-GP 1TB installed in 15 minutes.
    This whole upgrade was fairly painless; I didn't even have to call Charter to re-pair the cableCARD or hit the TA.

    I only wish my existing Season Passes had been downloaded so I didn't have to re-enter them all again. Maybe that was possible and I just didn't do enough research.

    The largest amount of time was spent transferring the recorded shows to and then restoring from my PC using TiVo Desktop. But it was done overnight both ways.
     

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