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Hard Drive Upgrade Info

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by amseven11, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. Sep 5, 2013 #961 of 3288
    ncbill

    ncbill Member

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    Sep 1, 2007
    Western NC
    Kudos to WK for their 7TB Roamio - hope they can verify that config is stable.

    A 7TB Tivo would make a heck of a home media server...
     
  2. Sep 5, 2013 #962 of 3288
    morac

    morac Cat God

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    NJ
    I don't fault WK for selling the 7 TB upgrade kit, but I don't see how they can, in good conscious, sell a Roamio 2 and 3 TB upgrade kit, when basically they are just selling a blank drive over cost.
     
  3. Sep 5, 2013 #963 of 3288
    andyw715

    andyw715 Well-Known Member

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    Well they do offer 180 warranty on them. Which is more than you'd get if you void the TiVo one by opening up the box (all arguments set aside on Tivo and their supposed stance on this matter).
     
  4. Sep 5, 2013 #964 of 3288
    Aero 1

    Aero 1 Member

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    Aug 8, 2007
    until someone in your house knocks out the esata cable of the external drive, or the external drive dies, then everything is gone.
     
  5. Sep 5, 2013 #965 of 3288
    ggieseke

    ggieseke Well-Known Member

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    The Linux operating system treats every partition as a separate logical drive. When the TiVo proprietary MFS file system kicks in it starts treating 4 or more "drives" as one big file system.

    A two drive system (3+1 or 3+4) lets you add more partitions on the 2nd physical drive and the Apple Partition Map on that drive starts over again at zero.

    It's not a true RAID 0 because the data isn't striped across all drives simultaneously, but since you can't know where it actually lives the effect is similar. A particular recording may be all on one drive, all on the other drive, or scattered across both.
     
  6. Sep 5, 2013 #966 of 3288
    TC25D

    TC25D New Member

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    Aug 21, 2013
    '...in good conscious...'? Why? They're offering a product for people who are willing to pay someone else to get the drive and install it.
     
  7. Sep 5, 2013 #967 of 3288
    jmpage2

    jmpage2 Active Member

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    Jan 20, 2004
    Good conscience (is what I think you meant)?

    They are offering a service. They are installing the drives, testing things out and offering you tech support and a warranty option if there is a problem.

    Sounds to me like they are getting paid for services rendered.
     
  8. Sep 5, 2013 #968 of 3288
    morac

    morac Cat God

    9,401
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    Mar 14, 2003
    NJ
    Are you sure the upgrade kits aren't self installs? They were back when I had my S2.
     
  9. Sep 6, 2013 #969 of 3288
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    I think people are confusing that they sell BOTH of the following:

    DIY Kits, which include a drive, whatever tools (torx drivers), needed to install the drive, and instructions on how to do it.

    AS WELL AS offering to do it for you AT AN ADDITIONAL COST.

    Some people haven't a clue how to even do the slightest bit of DIY work on electronics, and/or are scared to death that they'll break the device. I'm the exact opposite of this, but I would be in the minority, if I were to take a poll of my zip code (which is a very well-educated guess).

    I was just on Weaknees website, and see that the markup on the DIY Kits are ridiculous. I guess they are counting on the uneducated masses that don't know any better. If people did know the facts, and were DIY types, they would just buy a drive, and a cheap multi-bit driver that comes with torx bits, or just individual drivers of the sizes they need. You don't need a quality torx driver/bit to upgrade a TiVo. I've broken plenty of cheap tools, under normal to moderately heavy use (on CARS), but the only time I've broken a torx bit off is on a rusted car fastener (should have used my Craftsman set, instead of the cheap stuff from Harbor Freight Tools).

    FYI, for all, Harbor Freight tools sells a 100pc "Security Bit Set", which has 97 bits, including tamper-resistant torx bits, which will work on regular torx fasteners, for $19.99 full-price, $9.99 sale price, and they often have 20% off coupons in their sale flyers. As long as you only use them on indoor home electronics, they should never fail. If you are lucky enough to have a retail outlet store in your area, they DO have a LIFETIME warranty on all hand tools, and they do include driver bits under it, with FREE REPLACEMENT.
     
  10. Sep 6, 2013 #970 of 3288
    jmpage2

    jmpage2 Active Member

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    Even if it is a kit they are doing the development work and warrantee the solution. They deserve to turn a profit if they are doing that.
     
  11. Sep 6, 2013 #971 of 3288
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Cox Cable...
    While I don't disagree with the general statement, I feel that the costs of shipping a whole TiVo, or even a drive kit, back and forth, eat away at the added value of their warranty. Also, since you can drop in a retail or OEM bulk drive, which has a warranty from the drive manufacturer included in the price of the drive, it's still a lot of markup. If it wasn't determined that the drives from TiVo ship blank, and practically any up-to-3TB drive will work, I wouldn't even be posting this.

    I do fully agree that they do deserve to make some money due to the fact that they are always the leaders in doing the initial R&D. I feel the markup is excessive, based solely on that they are shipping you a blank drive. That's all. Maybe they test the drives in some sort of burn-in testing before they ship them, but I don't see any claim of that on their website.

    I'd be happy to sell people a blank drive, a couple cheap torx drivers, and an instruction sheet, at those prices. I could offer a warranty, make you pay all the shipping, and if the drive goes bad, I send you another one, and RMA the bad one back to the source. How can I lose?
     
  12. Sep 6, 2013 #972 of 3288
    TC25D

    TC25D New Member

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    Aug 21, 2013
    Good grief, what an assumption, that only 'the uneducated masses that don't know any better' could find value in what Weaknees offers. :rolleyes:

    Since you believe their 'markup is excessive' and 'you can't lose', then why don't you start doing this? Of course, you might have to work on your customer service skills by never telling your customers you consider them 'uneducated masses'.
     
  13. Sep 6, 2013 #973 of 3288
    HeatherA

    HeatherA Old AVS Forum Member

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    Hmmmm.... thanks for the info. I'm trying to decide on instant gratification and taking my chances or placing an order on Amazon for an AV drive. I wish Best Buy carried a larger selection of drives as I'd really like to pick one up after work today.
     
  14. Sep 6, 2013 #974 of 3288
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    You know what I meant. "Uneducated", when it comes to all the education right here, as well as that many don't even find themselves here, unless they have a problem, and Google, or any other search engine, leads them here, in their search for answers, or a solution.

    Who's being the smartazz now? You picked a post that I was being straightforward with, without crapping on anybody, which I thought through and reviewed/edited before posting it. Others have used far more harsh ways/words to describe those who don't have the knowledge/skills for DIY, or who don't do their research, and drop extra money on something they assume they need, when they may not have needed to spend the extra money.

    I only stay out of the biz, due to the inevitable others who will also soon be offering the same thing, for the same target demographic, and because I do have a conscience, which overrides the desire to buy a drive, a couple cheap tools, and make a huge profit, off people who simply don't know nothing special has been done to the drive.

    How about you just find the "Ignore User" function, and add me to it, since you always have some issue you can find with anything I post?
     
  15. Sep 6, 2013 #975 of 3288
    Rkkeller

    Rkkeller Active Member

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    May 13, 2004

    I have had non AV HD's in my TiVo HD and Premier for years. Someone just posted a Green vs AV comparison thread here yesterday and the actual differences are minimal. I think the biggest being the warranty.
     
  16. Sep 6, 2013 #976 of 3288
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Just my OPINION, based on what I know, and also based on the reports that I've been closely following on here:

    1. Don't get a 7200RPM, or otherwise high-performance, drive. They draw extra power, could strain the power supply, and could also cause excessive temperatures inside the TiVo, due to the extra heat (and TiVos still don't require high-performance drives, nor will they improve the performance).

    2. The preferred drives are in this order:

    a: Green (low power, low heat, low RPM) AV-rated drives (even though some have used non-AV drives in Roamios at this point). Unless TiVo begins using the AV ATA streaming feature command set, it's a feature that is more strategic marketing, than a necessity.

    b: WD Red NAS drives (which are not AV-rated), but meet the criteria as option (a), less the AV-rating, but approved by the manufacturer for 24/7 use (even though ALL modern hard drives are designed to be able to operate 24/7, just not all are marketed as such).

    c: An ordinary Green drive, as described in (a), but are not AV-rated, or marketed as a 24/7 drive (key words in all of my advice are "marketed" and "marketing").

    The AV and the NAS drives generally have a longer warranty, if that matters to you. If you are worried that using a drive not marketed for AV or DVR use will somehow void the drive warranty, don't be. You get the same warranty, no matter what application you use a drive for.

    The cost differences have become so negligible at this point, that the safest thing to do would be to use a WD AV-GP drive, model WD30EURS (for 3TB), since TiVo has been factory installing this exact model series (WD__EURS), in past and present models. When it comes down to a $10 difference to get an AV drive, versus non-AV, most are spending the extra, for peace of mind (and/or a longer warranty). In the past, the price difference was so huge, most went with non-AV (since it was never a requirement). So far, it SEEMS like it isn't a requirement, for the Roamio. But, you never know what the next software update might change... Like, when they get the out of house streaming working, maybe they will call upon streaming functions, present only in AV-rated drives. Or, it's possible that feature of the AV drives will not be seen in action, until the next product, or even never...

    Given the recent data provided by the author of DVRBARS, on how little has actually changed about the basics of the filesystem/partition structure, I wouldn't think TiVo could just switch on the AV functions of an AV drive, with a software update. BUT, if they have made the flash memory/BIOS remotely programmable, then I would start to wonder what they could enable. The product hasn't been out long enough for anybody to figure all these things out yet.

    Hope this helps (somebody at least).
     
  17. Sep 6, 2013 #977 of 3288
    HeatherA

    HeatherA Old AVS Forum Member

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    Jan 9, 2002
    That's good information. I'll have to look at the best buy drives I'm considering and see where they fit in. Price isn't an issue for me, it's more local availability.

    Thanks!
     
  18. Sep 6, 2013 #978 of 3288
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    +1 :up: I'm still running non-AV WD Green drives in most of my Premieres and TiVo HDs, as well.

    I bought a case of WD20EURS 2TB AV-GP drives when Newegg had a sale a while back, but rethought using them, after seeing many reports of reduced performance, and a mix of other issues with them, here, and on other sites (when used in original model Premieres and HDs).

    So, my WD20EADS drives will stay in use, until I see any signs of drive degradation, or imminent failure. Some are very close to outlasting their warranties.
     
  19. Sep 6, 2013 #979 of 3288
    HeatherA

    HeatherA Old AVS Forum Member

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    Jan 9, 2002
    Am I to understand that if the description of the drive doesn't state red/green etc then it doesn't fall into that type? I'm not sure if I should go with this drive or not based on what I'm reading on WD's website.

    I may need to take a trip to best buy and see if they have any drives that fit the bill.
     
  20. Sep 6, 2013 #980 of 3288
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Thanks, no problem. One additional thought:

    You may notice more WD_____X drives now, than the ones that end in "S".

    The difference is that X's are SATA3, as opposed to SATA2 (a faster drive to host communication speed, which a TiVo won't benefit from).

    The newer X ones are supposed to be completely backwards compatible, and sometimes are on sale for what the older ones go for. There shouldn't be any issue with using one. (If I'm wrong about this, I invite somebody to let me know, please).
     

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