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Hard Drive Upgrade Info

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by amseven11, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. Sep 2, 2013 #861 of 3265
    jodell

    jodell TiVo geek

    136
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    Jul 9, 2002
    Irvine, CA
    And I can confirm that you loose cable card pairing when removing a drive with paring information saved to it and later replacing it.

    Luckily for me, at 10 PM on a holiday weekend no one else was calling Cox tech support. I was on hold for 2 minutes and was re-paired within another 2 minutes.

    Jeff
     
  2. Sep 2, 2013 #862 of 3265
    swerver

    swerver Member

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    May 18, 2012
    Seems if tivo REALLY didn't mind people upgrading drives, they woulda just used your average phillips screw on the hdd.
     
  3. Sep 2, 2013 #863 of 3265
    zundian

    zundian New Member

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    Mar 5, 2008
    I was able to pick up a couple of Torx-head screwdrivers at a small town (population 508) hardware store without any trouble, I'm pretty sure you can find them everywhere.
     
  4. Sep 2, 2013 #864 of 3265
    elwaylite

    elwaylite Member

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    Apr 23, 2006
    Theodore, Al.
    Everyone should have a torx kit laying around! Never know when you will need them.
     
  5. Sep 2, 2013 #865 of 3265
    BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Active Member

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    May 15, 2002
    It's an invalid (gray area) APM scheme -- I don't think it was designed with that in mind, but it's not illegal (Wikipedia is wrong again -- anyone here want to edit the entry?). Tivo knows that and just carries on. The problem is that a program like gparted or an OS might flag that as an error and not let you work on that drive unless you manually edited the partition table yourself.

    So you could just use dd to copy the old drive to the new drive, manually edit the partition table to expand the last partition yourself, and you should have your old programs and the full capacity of the new drive. Unless there is also some database manipulation that has to also happen. Note that would only get you 3.5 TB of the 4 TB drive, but it's painless.

    If you wanted to use all 4 TB, you'd have to start moving and resizing partitions so they'd line up just right.
     
  6. Sep 2, 2013 #866 of 3265
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,698
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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    Unlike Dell or HP making IBM compatible PCs, TiVo does not have to meet any set standard for how the TiVo does it work inside the box, so what TiVo does is only for TiVos convenience not for DIY people like many on this forum, the new Series 5 models appear to make it very easy to upgrade the hard drive to a max of 3Tb inside and add another 1Tb external, that would give one over 600 hours of HD record time, that should be good for over 99% of TiVo users, but than there is the challenge of hacking the TiVo, been going on for over 12 years so why stop now.
     
  7. Sep 2, 2013 #867 of 3265
    BobCamp1

    BobCamp1 Active Member

    1,348
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    May 15, 2002
    I know, realized my mistake, and I edited my post just before you posted. :) It's difficult thinking about these things while waiting in line for roller coasters. :D But you'd still like to copy the old stuff over to a larger hard drive *AND* expand, which is where the tools would still have a purpose.

    I updated my post to say that we should be able to use 3.5 TB of a 4 TB drive with no major hacks. Using all 4 TB will be a challenge, and isn't worth it except as a challenge.
     
  8. Sep 2, 2013 #868 of 3265
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,698
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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    :up:
     
  9. Sep 2, 2013 #869 of 3265
    morac

    morac Cat God

    8,960
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    Mar 14, 2003
    NJ
    For what it's worth, I'm pretty sure TiVo implemented things this way, for their own cost savings benefit, not to help out do it yourself upgraders.

    With no set up difference between the Plus and Pro, there's really only 2 models: the Roamio and the Roamio Plus/Pro. Tivo throws a 1 TB drive in, it's a Plus. TiVo throws a 3 TB drive in, it's a Pro. It also makes repairing and reselling refurbished models a breeze, since all they need to do is plop in a new HD. They can even sell a refurbished Pro as a Plus or vice-versa.

    Finally it makes "upgrading", the models easier. If TiVo wants to switch to use a 1 TB drive in the Roamio in a year or two, as the drives get cheaper, they can easily do so.
     
  10. Sep 2, 2013 #870 of 3265
    ggieseke

    ggieseke Active Member

    4,031
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    May 30, 2008
    If you want to keep the partitions on a 4K alignment as TiVo seems to be doing with the Roamio line, the max per drive should be 4,398,046,502,912 bytes. That should utilize all of any current "4TB" drive.

    Adding partitions won't work anymore once you're past the 2TB limit, but resizing and moving them should still be possible. The tough part is that it isn't just modifying the APM. You have to rewrite all of the MFS zone headers and create new MFS "bitmaps" to go along with it.

    I have started reprogramming, but it's going to take a while. For one thing, the file format I'm using now can't describe a drive > 2TB. Another problem is that even though I think I know enough about MFS to pull it off, writing and testing the code is another matter. I also don't have a Roamio yet or any drives > 2TB to test with.

    For now I think we'll just have to settle for 450 hours of HD. :eek:
     
  11. Sep 2, 2013 #871 of 3265
    ggieseke

    ggieseke Active Member

    4,031
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    May 30, 2008
    I'm still curious about how they'd auto-partition a 2TB drive. My current program can't properly image anything over 2TB, so the 3TB image from Devx is informative (thanks again) but not complete. A 2TB image would still be extremely valuable.
     
  12. Sep 2, 2013 #872 of 3265
    jodell

    jodell TiVo geek

    136
    0
    Jul 9, 2002
    Irvine, CA
    I will be sending you a box.com folder share later today so you can look at a full backup of a 2 TB drive.

    Jeff
     
  13. Sep 2, 2013 #873 of 3265
    jcthorne

    jcthorne Active Member

    2,726
    3
    Jan 28, 2002
    Houston
    Torx screws were developed for robotic assembly lines. A single tool can grasp the screw, insert and torque it. A Phillips head by design cannot hold the screw to the bit because of the internal angles of the drive pattern.
     
  14. Sep 2, 2013 #874 of 3265
    jmpage2

    jmpage2 New Member

    1,951
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    Jan 20, 2004
    Bingo.
     
  15. Sep 2, 2013 #875 of 3265
    Joe Siegler

    Joe Siegler New Member

    780
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    May 10, 2000
    Garland, TX
    Man, this new upgrade procedure is making me want to go get one and do the upgrade. Have never messed with one my TiVo's ever, going back 13 years to my first one.

    Now I have to find the bloody money to get it. :)
     
  16. Sep 2, 2013 #876 of 3265
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

    37,526
    183
    Apr 17, 2000
    Nevada
    Screws and stickers don't matter because they can tell from their logs if you've upgraded your drive. If they decide to enforce the rules they can tell right from their computer screen if you've opened the lid. In the past they've mostly turned a blind eye to upgrading, but that could change at and time. So you're taking a risk by upgrading the drive.
     
  17. Sep 2, 2013 #877 of 3265
    midlomuncher

    midlomuncher New Member

    14
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    Jan 29, 2007
    ebay all of that stuff you don't use anymore. People love to buy other peoples junk. :)
     
  18. Sep 2, 2013 #878 of 3265
    PaulNEPats

    PaulNEPats New Member

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    Aug 10, 2007
    Even so I think they'd have to prove that replacing the drive caused whatever issue requiring warranty service.
     
  19. Sep 2, 2013 #879 of 3265
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,698
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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    Prove to who!! Open the case warranty finished, but TiVo has never made a big deal out of this policy, the mother board/PS goes bad, put in the original disk and ask for a RMA, chances are the TiVo CSR will not go into your logs, just don't tell them, as some have done, that I upgraded the drive and nine months later the TiVo went south, I put the original drive back in and the TiVo still will not work please give me a RMA.
     
  20. Sep 2, 2013 #880 of 3265
    mdscott

    mdscott Active Member

    1,601
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    Jun 26, 2002
    Hermosa...
    While warranty refusal on a modified DVR simply because it has been modified is a potential issue -- I do not believe that a search of all the forums on the site will find a report of it having happened EVER.

    Just be aware of the possibility and do any modifications carefully -- such as by closely following the instructions provided by well respected vendors.

    michael
     

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