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Hard Drive Upgrade Info

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by amseven11, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. Aug 29, 2013 #721 of 3265
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

    19,180
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    Northern...
    There has to be some difference somewhere. But it could just be the warranty. Because WD would probably not knowingly warranty a non DVR drive used in a DVR.
     
  2. Aug 29, 2013 #722 of 3265
    ggieseke

    ggieseke Active Member

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    I finally got DvrBARS full images of a Basic before & after setup. Thanks PapaArt!

    The drive does indeed appear to be 99% blank as shipped from the factory, but there are some non-zero sectors that I think are the result of some diagnostics either at Seagate or TiVo. For instance, the first sector that has any info at all is almost 8GB into the drive and it's just two repeating text strings - "WRW" and "UEST".

    My analysis of the drive after setup is going well, but I DESPERATELY need "after" images for 1TB, 2TB & 3TB drives. From what I'm seeing so far it's bizarre and familiar at the same time but I don't want to post my WAGs until I can remove more of the question marks in my notes.

    The Full "after" backup of the 500GB Basic drive was only 1.75GB and it zipped down to 700MB. It's really easy to put it in your public Dropbox folder and send me a PM with a link.
     
  3. Aug 29, 2013 #723 of 3265
    GoHokies!

    GoHokies! O2->CO2 Converter

    2,657
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    Sep 21, 2005
    KFME
    How long does it take the backup to run?

    I put a 3TB into my Plus, I'd be willing to pull it if the backup doesn't take an obscene amount of time.

    I can also give you a "before" on the stock 1 TB drive.
     
  4. Aug 29, 2013 #724 of 3265
    Crrink

    Crrink Active Member

    1,963
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    Sep 2, 2002
    Austin, TX
    I upgraded my Roamio Basic with a 3Tb WD Red drive last night. Like others have said, getting the cover off was the hardest part.
    The Red drive booted up fine - I didn't disable intellipark, or do anything else with the drive. I plan to test warm and cold reboots to see if there are any issues, and will report back when I do.
    Once the TiVo was working, I had all 4 tuners record, and then began transferring shows from my old TiVo HD (at my house wireless is SLOW. Once the Roamio is all set up, it'll get connected to ethernet.) I put my ear next to the vent on the side that holds the drive, and all I could hear was a hum - either the drive or the fan. I couldn't hear any seeking/reading/writing noise at all, so the Red drive is more than quiet enough for me :) Definitely quieter than the 2 year old 2Tb AV-GP drive in the TiVoHD (though I can only hear that one when my ear is inches away from that TiVo.)

    Anyway, so far so good. I'd like to be able to fill the drive up and report back, but with 450 hours of space, I really don't see that happening any time soon, if at all.

    If anybody has questions about my drive in particular, I'll keep tabs on this thread and try to respond quickly.
    Thanks to all who've posted here already - certainly made my upgrade easier. :up:
     
  5. Aug 29, 2013 #725 of 3265
    ggieseke

    ggieseke Active Member

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    Since Full backups read the entire disk it really depends on the PC and the connection. USB2 would suck. My PC's chipset maxes out at just under 2Gb/s, so even USB3 or direct SATA connections take about 10 hours per TB.

    If your PC supports true 6Gb/s a direct SATA, eSATA or USB3 connection should run the entire 3TB drive in about 8-9 hours. If you have already run Guided Setup or made any recordings the final file size would probably be unwieldy at best.

    I'd be interested in the raw 1TB image too, just to see if what I think are test patterns come from TiVo or the drive manufacturer. The 500GB raw image was only 800MB and zipped down to 4MB. You could email it...
     
  6. Aug 29, 2013 #726 of 3265
    PapaArt

    PapaArt New Member

    41
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    May 28, 2008
    SF Eastbay
    When I did the full back up on the 500 Mb drive it took 2+ hours using USB connected enclosure.

    PapaArt
     
  7. Aug 29, 2013 #727 of 3265
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,695
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    CT
    Non of the tools recognize the new format (and I tried them all) as a TiVo signature, the only reason to use any tools on the Roamio would be to expand a drive from say 1Tb to say 3Tb and not have any loss of recordings, settings etc. If your drive goes south you can just put in another drive (up to 3Tb for now) and the Roamio will format and set up the drive as a new TiVo.
     
  8. Aug 29, 2013 #728 of 3265
    ggieseke

    ggieseke Active Member

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    May 30, 2008
    True, but I hope to have a new version of DvrBARS out in a few weeks that adds Roamio support. Backup and expansion are pretty much things of the past with this new line as long as you're willing to start over from scratch, but if I can figure out a way to do it that keeps your existing stuff it might be useful to some people.
     
  9. Aug 29, 2013 #729 of 3265
    elwaylite

    elwaylite Member

    367
    4
    Apr 23, 2006
    Theodore, Al.
    The only read difference I can see on the WD site between a Caviar Green 2TB and an AV-Gp 2TB is:

    AV-GP is rated 10 degrees celsius higher
    (green is 32 degrees to 140F and av-gp is 32 to 158)
    AV-GP has an xtra year warranty
    AV-GP is slightly more quiet
    Green is 6GB/s max and AV-GP is 3
     
  10. Aug 29, 2013 #730 of 3265
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

    8,950
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    Aug 25, 2001
    Florida
    I could definitely see it being useful to copy from one drive to another to expand. Say you bought the Plus and the 3TB drives dropped to $75 and you decided to upgrade. If you could copy over the recordings to the new drive and just plug and play it would be nice.

    Of course I don't know if anyone has tested the replacement scenario. Take the initial drive, run through guided setup, record a couple of shows both copy once and copy freely, and then pull the drive. Replace with an upgrade and repeat the process. Then pull that drive and put the original drive back in. Are the shows still there or does it format everytime?

    I think we need a Wiki or Google Docs on everything that has been tested and by who, how many, and which TiVo. This thread is so long and quick it is tough to keep track.
     
  11. Aug 29, 2013 #731 of 3265
    ggieseke

    ggieseke Active Member

    4,025
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    May 30, 2008
    The recordings, Guide Data, Settings etc should still be there unless it reformats the drive (which I doubt but can't swear to). CableCARD pairing is still up in the air. It's all still guesswork and I like your Wiki suggestion.
     
  12. Aug 29, 2013 #732 of 3265
    Jonathan_S

    Jonathan_S Active Member

    15,070
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    Oct 23, 2001
    Northern...
    I wouldn't say an AV drive in AV mode is an unqualified benefit for a media center PC.

    I still wouldn't want to OS running from a drive with error recovery suppressed. But yes, AV mode would be great if you were only using the AV drive for media and had a separate boot drive (small harddrive, SSD, etc).
     
  13. Aug 29, 2013 #733 of 3265
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    It's not an entire "all or none" situation. ONLY the AV data gets written in streaming mode, if supported, and enabled. As I've said in other posts, even if TiVo ever did start using it, the databases would still be written as data, not as an AV stream. So, there would still be both error-handling algorithms in use.

    Your post would lead one to believe the entire drive gets one toggle, and changes modes. That's not how it works. Perhaps that's why TiVo hasn't used it, so far. It would require extra work to implement, because it's not just a whole-drive mode toggle.
     
  14. Aug 29, 2013 #734 of 3265
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Nobody knows, except TiVo, and maybe Weaknees.

    I was just reflex-stopping the MYTH that just because a drive is AV-rated, it AUTOMATICALLY uses different error correction, all on it's own. It's not true!

    I never said that the Roamio is incapable of taking advantage of the feature set. I was talking strictly hard drive, and KNOWN TiVo facts.

    We are in the land of the unknown here. I felt the need to stop a myth, before it took root, and grew more seedlings.
     
  15. Aug 29, 2013 #735 of 3265
    elwaylite

    elwaylite Member

    367
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    Apr 23, 2006
    Theodore, Al.
    I still havent seen any proof either way, yet you keep saying its a MYTH because you said so.

    Im not challenging you, but documentation, or a link would be nice. I'd like to read it and learn a little. You saying others are wrong because you said so doesnt present much.

    If it is a MYTH, it gets thrown around a lot and it'd be nice to be able to correct the posts with actual data, otherwise I would just have to say "because a guy on tivocommunity.com said so".
     
  16. Aug 29, 2013 #736 of 3265
    Am_I_Evil

    Am_I_Evil Member

    173
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    Apr 7, 2009
    so i should be getting my 3TB drive today. But i may have to hold off and swapping it out as i noticed last night 2 of my tuners had no audio. I rebooted this morning before work but haven't been able to test it out. I went to watch Futurama last night and it recorded with no audio. Very annoying.
     
  17. Aug 29, 2013 #737 of 3265
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

    7,695
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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    Your idea works great as I did that, BUT you have a loss of the cable card pairing and can't get it back even if you put the original disk back in, so when you are finished you still have to call Comcast and re-pair the card, this is for Comcast in Hartford CT YMMV. I have not tried putting a drive from one Roamio into another, but will next week when I get the 2nd Roamio Plus.
     
  18. Aug 29, 2013 #738 of 3265
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

    3,554
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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Go do your own damn research, and find facts, that aren't linked to somebody in the business of making people believe they need an AV rated drive, just because the device the drive goes into handles AV.

    It took me months to be sure I had my ducks in a row. I didn't make a list of every source that I used, to find UNBIASED data on the matter.

    The myths about AV drives lead all the way back to the first HDD FAQ on these very forums. Weaknees was the source of what people thought to be fact, and posted here, without knowing they were passing along propaganda, provided by an UPGRADE DRIVE SELLER.
     
  19. Aug 29, 2013 #739 of 3265
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

    8,950
    3
    Aug 25, 2001
    Florida
    True, but if a drive was giving you signs it was going to fail you could then hopefully copy those recordings to a new drive and expand the space at the same time. Either way you would need to pair the CC again.

    FiOS makes it fairly easy since the online chat support on their website can do it from what Ben @EngadgetHD has said.
     
  20. Aug 29, 2013 #740 of 3265
    elwaylite

    elwaylite Member

    367
    4
    Apr 23, 2006
    Theodore, Al.
    About the reaction I expected. "Cause I said so". Glad to see a forum is about learning...

    I don't know enough technically about HDD's to really start, but I guess Google will be at least a better source than you since it wont be an ass about the whole thing. Hopefully next time you pose a question to someone in a field you are not experienced, you get the same answer.
     

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