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Hard Drive Upgrade Info

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by amseven11, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. Aug 26, 2013 #601 of 3265
    chg

    chg New Member

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    Jul 28, 2007
    Back in stock directly from Amazon. "Only 14 left in stock"
     
  2. Aug 27, 2013 #602 of 3265
    lessd

    lessd Active Member

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    Jan 23, 2005
    CT
    All I know is that is was over 1 hour as I went to bed leaving the PC running, I am using an old HP PC with a P4 and XP, (in the cellar) not the fastest in the world but I only use this computer for TiVo upgrades and some other stuff, it is not my main computer.
     
  3. Aug 27, 2013 #603 of 3265
    moyekj

    moyekj Well-Known Member

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    Jan 23, 2006
    Mission...
    Perhaps I missed it but has it been determined yet what other data besides shows are stored on the hard drive vs the SSD? For example important data such as:
    * Cable Card pairing
    * Season Passes
    * Wishlists (the non auto-record variety)
    * Preferences
    * Channel Lineup
    * Thumbs (though I don't care about that)

    Would be nice to know exactly what is and what is not preserved when throwing in a new drive.
    I've seen mentioned that you are forced to go through guided setup again which seems to imply perhaps channel lineup is not preserved.
     
  4. Aug 27, 2013 #604 of 3265
    jmpage2

    jmpage2 New Member

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    Jan 20, 2004
    No one knows (for sure) but the most likely thing is that there is nothing stored on flash other than a stub image to get th drive partitioned and installed.
     
  5. Aug 27, 2013 #605 of 3265
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

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    Jan 6, 2000
    New York
    :D
     
  6. Aug 27, 2013 #606 of 3265
    Kobe_No_Means_No

    Kobe_No_Means_No New Member

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    Aug 26, 2013
    Okay, so I took matters into my own hands and gave the 4TB a try. I've got a NAS that's running 8 4TB drives and I pulled one to do the test, the drive is a Seagate ST4000DM000 4TB.

    Here's the problem I ran into. The drive needs to be formatted by Tivo, and I get this screen:

    [​IMG]

    The problem is when I press "select" on the remote there is no response. I think if I can get the remote to function then all is well. Any ideas?
     
  7. Aug 27, 2013 #607 of 3265
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    I don't see any mention that you zeroed out the drive with Seagate's utilities. I wouldn't expect anything to go well, if I took a drive out of my PC (or in your case, your NAS device) and just slapped it into any TiVo. At minimum, I'd make sure there was no form of any partitions, and clear the boot sector area of the drive.

    WD's utility gives you the option to just wipe the beginning and end of the drive, which I would think would be a fast and easy way to make the TiVo see an empty drive without spending hours wiping the whole drive with zeroes.
     
  8. Aug 27, 2013 #608 of 3265
    Kobe_No_Means_No

    Kobe_No_Means_No New Member

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    Aug 26, 2013
    So I guess there are 2 workarounds. One is to somehow get the remote to work (which I think is difficult), and the other is to format the disk on a PC in a way that the Tivo will accept it without asking it to be reformatted. I'm not very familiar with Tivo so if you guys have any ideas let me know.

    As far as the process goes, it's extremely easy. It's seriously a 3-minute job. Remove a few screws and swap the drives. Given that the 3TB drives are proven to work, there's absolutely no reason to get a Roamio Pro at this point.
     
  9. Aug 27, 2013 #609 of 3265
    Kobe_No_Means_No

    Kobe_No_Means_No New Member

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    Aug 26, 2013
    It's actually a brand new drive. My Nas is currently running 6 4TB drives, and I had 2 brand new drives that act as hot-spares (so if one of the 6 drives fail, then it will initialize one of the extra drives and rotate it in.) So actually it's just a brand new 4TB drive.
     
  10. Aug 27, 2013 #610 of 3265
    jfh3

    jfh3 New Member

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    Apr 15, 2004
    Denver area
    Try an old TiVo (IR) remote set to address 0. Or try putting the Roamio remote in IR mode. My guess is that RF support is not enabled yet in this part of the boot process.

    Thanks for experimenting!
     
  11. Aug 27, 2013 #611 of 3265
    TC25D

    TC25D New Member

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    Aug 21, 2013
    That's the point, though, isn't it?

    After 600 posts in this thread, if someone had a 4 TB drive laying around, or had a local store that accepted used hard drive returns, they already would have tested it. Even then, theses posts are, without saying it directly, asking;

    "Could someone risk their money, hard drive and use their time to test something Weaknees has said they could not get to work."

    While no one was sure there wasn't some 'secret sauce' involved, we knew 1 TB, 2 TB and 3 TB hardware worked and were almost certain 4 TB hardware did not. Hopefully, after this experiment, Kobe has not sacrificed his NAS drive.

    Thanks, for your experiment Kobe. :)
     
  12. Aug 27, 2013 #612 of 3265
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    EDIT INSERT [I see you posted while I was typing all this, but still think it should be helpful to others]

    What I meant was to make the drive appear EMPTY, and free of any foreign (non-TiVo Roamio) partitions, and without any data in the boot sector area. You DON'T want to do a PC OS format, as that would require a partition the PC's OS recognizes, to format. That formatted partition would likely give the exact same result.

    You can use a PC to do it. But, you want to make the TiVo see an empty drive. Most of the time, the best way is a boot CD that bypasses Windows, and performs what is commonly called a "low-level format" (which is an out-of-date, but still-used terminology) which on modern drives simply means writing all zeros sector-by-sector.

    Download whatever tools Seagate has for disk testing/troubleshooting, and if it runs within Windows/Linux/whatever, fine. Just don't use the OS itself to format the drive. Just deleting any pre-existing partitions might do, but that doesn't insure the drive will appear blank to the TiVo. You can delete a partition, then turn-around and recover it, and the data on it. This is because the data is still there, you just can't access it until you put the partition table(s) back as they were.

    Short of writing zeros to the whole drive, technically there will always be data on the drive, even if you can't access it.

    That's how all the partition and data recovery tools work. They scan over the dive, searching for the data, then try to rebuild the partition and file data.

    If I were going to try this, I'd use WinDLG (since I use WD drives), and select "Write Zeros" then select "whole drive" and go to bed, since it will take a LONG TIME. The other option is "Write Zeros" and select "only first million sectors and last million sectors", which takes minutes, but leaves data in the middle. Wouldn't you want your drive to be fully erased, so any post-analysis or troubleshooting of the mystery 4TB issue, wouldn't involve old data in the free space? Just because the TiVo can create partitions and download the software to them, doesn't mean the TiVo zeros out the drive when you put it in. The old data just gets overwritten as the drive fills up.
     
  13. Aug 27, 2013 #613 of 3265
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    Just a wild guess, but in my experience, hot spares in any array of disks get a signature wrote to them, that they belong to the NAS device, and what the last position of the drive was in the array.

    Can you be sure? You could always start a zero-out, let it run a few minutes, abort, and know the beginning of the drive has no signature.

    Some NAS or array situations also hijack a portion of the drive called the HPA (Host Protected Area), and a full low-level format is the only way to make sure it is reclaimed as available.
     
  14. Aug 27, 2013 #614 of 3265
    TC25D

    TC25D New Member

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    Aug 21, 2013
    In short, only a brand new 4 TB drive need apply for this experiment. If the drive has been seen by an OS, or any other hardware that might have written any information on it, thanks but no thanks.

    Kobe - unless you have time to burn, my advice is to put the drive back in your NAS :D and thanks for trying.
     
  15. Aug 27, 2013 #615 of 3265
    Kobe_No_Means_No

    Kobe_No_Means_No New Member

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    Aug 26, 2013
    Okay, still no go. I was able to get past that screen by accessing the Tivo through my Slingbox, because that uses IR and allows me to use a virtual remote to press "select". However, after pressing select, the box reboots, goes through a few screens "almost there", and then goes back to the original screen that asks to format.

    So I've solved the remote issue. But the drive just doesn't work.
     
  16. Aug 27, 2013 #616 of 3265
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    Yes, Thank You Kobe, for trying.

    As far as buying a drive, that may not be compatible, or work, I'd advise against buying from Newegg. Their current RMA process and policy involves restocking fees, you pay return shipping, and I just had a HORRIBLE experience with them not crediting me for an item that was on the RMA and was in the box.

    So, I'm out $50 for what they lost, or disregarded, plus restocking, plus shipping. All because the memory I bought was incompatible or defective, they bundled in a game coupon that they called "FREE", but took $49.99 off my refund, for the value of the coupon which was on the top the packing material, and also noted in my RMA description (which they didn't read). The memory was less than $60. You do the math. They got my money, the coupon, and the memory. Try even finding their phone number, and when you finally get it, try getting a live person.

    Lesson learned: The low prices from Newegg can come at a STEEP COST.
     
  17. Aug 27, 2013 #617 of 3265
    ppartekim

    ppartekim New Member

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    Middle of...
    Yep, that is why if I am even thinking that a purchase might have to be returned I will buy it from a brick&mortar store vs online. Luckily, I do live in an area filled with Fry's and Central Computer computer stores.. (and some will even match Amazon, assuming they carry the product).. :)

    In the case of these drives tho only Amazon had the WD AV 3TBs... :confused:

    Tho, Central Computer did carry the Seagate 4TB Pipeline for ~$220 (with tax) vs ~$150 3TB from Amazon (prime and tax).
     
  18. Aug 27, 2013 #618 of 3265
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    Yes, this is the right-to-the-point, concise, version of what I was saying.

    You can make a drive completely empty again. But why, when there is a reported issue with 4TB, add more variables and unknowns, with a drive that has been used in anything else, even a new "hot spare" from any disk array.

    Thanks in advance, to any pioneers willing to do what others can't, won't, or don't have the option to actually do.
     
  19. Aug 27, 2013 #619 of 3265
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    I have a Fry's 30 minutes away, all freeway to get there. However, ~50% of what I have ever bought there has been DOA (dead on arrival home), defective in some way, or has failed after short time in use. This is actually the first time I had to do a RMA with Newegg, for the same kind of hardware. There's always a catch-22, just waiting for me.
     
  20. Aug 27, 2013 #620 of 3265
    ppartekim

    ppartekim New Member

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    Jan 17, 2007
    Middle of...
    You do have to be careful buying from Fry's, a lot of people buy and return and sometimes they slap a "open box" label on it and throw back on the shelf (sometimes even forgetting the label). Hence the many possible DOAs.

    I have bought most of my drives there over the last 20 years and only had a couple of legit DOAs (once I knew how to look at the packaging).
     

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