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Hard Drive Upgrade Info

Discussion in 'TiVo Roamio DVRs' started by amseven11, Aug 20, 2013.

  1. Aug 22, 2013 #201 of 3265
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    Unless... It could've been an oversight, coding error, server malfunction, or any number of things that let something meant only for MSOs occur on retail units. TiVo DOES make mistakes, and they aren't immune to system malfunctions. An example is how some people used the new online TSN transfer (when it was first new) to transfer lifetime service between units, when that wasn't supposed to be possible. It happened. I missed that small window of opportunity by a few hours...

    Let's not forget the legal might of TiVo. They do reserve the right to change their TOS/policies/rules AT ANY TIME, and will give you 30 days notice.

    They can always grandfather those that took advantage of it, and allow them to keep their upgraded unit in operation, or give them a choice of putting the original drive back in and in return, not voiding their warranty.

    Have you read the new TOS and policies, which we have less than 30 days to opt-out of? There are LOTS of mentions in BOLD PRINT about them leveraging punitive penalties against users, up to, and including TERMINATION OF TIVO SERVICE, as well as punitive financial penalties.
     
  2. Aug 22, 2013 #202 of 3265
    puffdaddy

    puffdaddy Member

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    Easily.

    This clearly crosses into the speculative realm, but my belief is that management will be disheartened enough at the thought of losing sales of the Pro unit to a request a fix from development. It would take a clear, calm management head to not have a knee jerk reaction to this news, but even if management did request a fix, development might respond that these images are built months in advance, so even a requested fix would be too long after launch to make a difference. Then it gets closed in a future release still under active development.

    It's hard not to believe that tivo knew this would happen, though often times there can be a gulf between development (where everyone on the development team has known for months that moving the Series5 units over to a Flash based boot drive would mean that anyone can drop in a new, bigger drive and increase the recording space) and marketing (who agonized over the pricing structure for the Roamio rollout based on numerous hours of number crunching, surveys, and focus groups) had no clue that this was possible.
     
  3. Aug 22, 2013 #203 of 3265
    Series3Sub

    Series3Sub Active Member

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    I subscribe to the "meeting the demands" of the MSO's theory. Cheaper just to have ONE box to manufacture and one software. The majority of TiVo owners aren't DYI people. How about the theory that if this simple slap in a new HDD and away we go is true, is that it will STIMULATE sales of the Roamio line with power users/DYI folks, likely MULTIPLE Roamio purchases over time. TiVo has always known they can't get DYI folks to buy the higher end models because DYI folks are interested in higher capacity, not THX Certification. So, why not embrace the DYI and meet the MSO's requests. Completely cheap skate the Roamio and put a small, slightly inferior to the WE EURS in IMHO, save tons of costs and let the DYI folks bear the cost of more capacity. Sounds like good business to me.

    I suppose TiVo is sorry they didn't pay for--I mean get--THX Certification for the Pro, as that had always been the "difference" with the flagship model. Now, TiVo can't even say that! One would think TiVo would have crowed about some difference, other than stock drive size, between the Plus and Pro, but, so far, nothing.

    Meanwhile, the rest of the market will be sold on the more expensive units or multiple base Roamios just as always. It really makes no difference to TiVo, only to TiVo owners who may have an EASY way to increase capacity and who would've have done so any way with the old methods, and to DVRDudes and Weaknees who will have something of a disturbance to their business model.
     
  4. Aug 22, 2013 #204 of 3265
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

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    I still think if they hadn't priced the Pro so high this wouldn't have even been a question in people's mind. If anything they sort of put themselves in this position.

    At $599 I went from a day one purchase to waiting to see if we might get an upgrade offer. At $499 or even $549 people would opt to buy over upgrade and the only upgraders would be for the ones who opted for the Plus and upgraded down the road when 3TB AV drives dropped in price.

    I do agree it will be really interesting to see how TiVo responds. I think with this out there it might hurt them to be too aggressive especially when it has been such a well received launch except for the pricing.
     
  5. Aug 22, 2013 #205 of 3265
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    If Weaknees knew about this and this is the method they are upgrading with, then I guess a 4TB drive would not work? If I get a 3TB drive I will just go with the WD AV drive instead of the Seagate since it's cheaper.
     
  6. Aug 22, 2013 #206 of 3265
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

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    They might have to do some additional hacking like manually expanding one of the partitions. Of course this makes you wonder if Roamio would just try to reformat the drive.

    I wonder what happens if you put a drive from another Roamio in? Does it just work or does it detect a non-matching TSN and rebuild? or something else entirely? Works for future recordings, but won't play original recordings?
     
  7. Aug 22, 2013 #207 of 3265
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    Very well put. It may be speculative, but I share your speculation, and will raise you one invitation to read the new TOS/User Agreements, and invite further speculation of such a "very feasible" nature.

    If this was born out of giving the MSOs what they wanted, and a retail accident, one could say TiVo may worry about retail sales. Reasonable, but I think TiVo cares more about MSO contracts and less and less about retail.

    It's not unreasonable to think that TiVo may eventually abandon retail, if they can get enough MSO contracts. Then they can shut down their so-called "support center", save money there, and cash in on the MSO deals.
     
  8. Aug 22, 2013 #208 of 3265
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    I'd almost bet on a 4TB workaround being their golden ticket with the Roamio line. If they know anybody that can swap a drive can get to 3TB, they should be working hard at coming up with a way to do something that the everyday Joe DIYer can't.
     
  9. Aug 22, 2013 #209 of 3265
    sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    I think the number of potential Pro sales TiVo might lose to consumers purchasing a larger hard drive and the correct tools to open up their Roamio box is extremely small. This is probably a don't care for TiVo and the convenience associated with MSO maintenance and life cycle support makes it a very worthwhile feature.
     
  10. Aug 22, 2013 #210 of 3265
    sbiller

    sbiller Active Member

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    Also, TiVo doesn't focus on hardware revenue/sales. They are really interested in long term subscriber growth while controlling subscription acquisition costs (SAC). The impact of Roamio, Mini, and Stream is a reduction in churn and the possibility that TiVo might once again start to add Retail subscribers to the books which has been on a slow and steady decline for quite some time.
     
  11. Aug 22, 2013 #211 of 3265
    Series3Sub

    Series3Sub Active Member

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    I think we will see the price on the Plus and Pro drop a bit, but mostly the Pro to make it more attractive. Look, this is NOT about the DYI folks on this forum, we/they have NEVER been suckered into the flagship models. The pricing for the Pro is all about the majority of the people who buy TiVo's who are NOT DYI folks and will pay more for the greater capacity of the Pro. I think TiVo had lots of meetings about this and feel the data bears out their pricing for the Pro. I suspect the Pro will be a favorite of Home Theater installers who will gladly spend other (rich) people's money, while the affluent middle class will find the Plus quite sufficient, and OTA folks have no choice, and they may be the least knowledgeable group. We are still the minority. There are lots of those who know nothing more about TiVo than it is a good DVR and they want one. Now, how much money do I hand over to you Mr. Best Buy sales clerk?
     
  12. Aug 22, 2013 #212 of 3265
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    I wonder if this is really the reason that Weaknees didn't start out with upgrade drives? That they have not been able to copy any drives yet?
     
  13. Aug 22, 2013 #213 of 3265
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    I'm feeling better about my Pro purchase. I could have saved $37 doing it myself, but this way I get a clean out of the box experience with no worries about warranty issues. Now I know I would have ended up with an extra 1TB drive that way, but I know myself and I would have just left that sitting somewhere anyway "just in case" so it wouldn't have had any real value.
     
  14. Aug 22, 2013 #214 of 3265
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

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    Yeah I am still leaning to the Pro even with the upgrade option. I am probably buying from Best Buy so the only reason I would go Plus is they didn't have the Pro in.

    If they had offered a 2TB model I could see opting for that over the 3TB model and upgrading later to if someone got a 4TB working easily.
     
  15. Aug 22, 2013 #215 of 3265
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    You mentioned "DYI people" a dozen times in your post. As in "Do Yourself In"?

    Sorry, I couldn't resist! :rolleyes: :D

    I agree with the one platform (box) part, but TiVo would never put exactly the same software on both versions (MSO & retail), unless it was meant to be so flexible, that the MSOs could have some backdoor way in and tweak it however they like. Now that I typed that, I am thinking maybe that is the case, and that's where this possible overlooked upgrade ability came from.

    In this thread, the upgrader stated, more than once, that the box updated itself TWICE. Maybe the first update was the MSO software, and the second the retail software. Since the larger drive was the first drive it saw, the MSO software allowed it. Since it was already there, the retail software didn't flinch. What if it had been started with the original drive first?

    One thing we don't know is if there was anything on the original drive. Maybe it wasn't a blank drive. Maybe if it had been allowed to boot, the bigger drive wouldn't have worked the way it did... Or, maybe if they pulled the bigger drive, and attempted again, it wouldn't work again.

    Really, there's a lot of things we still don't know. I expect it to take some time, before we can truly be confident in what we know, or think we do.

    The upgrader could do the community a great service by doing a full DVRBARS backup of the unbooted original drive, and getting it sent to ggieseke, the author of the software. Maybe there is something on it, as opposed to it being the assumed blank slate. Perhaps the S/N or something else on the drive is what maybe should have flagged the unit as retail...
     
  16. Aug 22, 2013 #216 of 3265
    Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Yeah if they had a 2TB option I would have gone with that. But 1TB wasn't enough so I had to make the jump to 3TB.
     
  17. Aug 23, 2013 #217 of 3265
    tivogurl

    tivogurl New Member

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  18. Aug 23, 2013 #218 of 3265
    bdspilot

    bdspilot New Member

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    How do you get the $40 off coupon
     
  19. Aug 23, 2013 #219 of 3265
    ppartekim

    ppartekim New Member

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    Middle of...
    My first was the UNIVAC 1100 series in the AF. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UNIVAC_1105
     
  20. Aug 23, 2013 #220 of 3265
    tivogurl

    tivogurl New Member

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    That model of drive is out of stock at Newegg. I can't help but wonder if Roamio upgraders are responsible.
     

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