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Good Bye TiVo

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by Joey Bagadonuts, May 25, 2013.

  1. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    Those folks are running the latest TiVo and owned modem and router equipment that has been installed by their HT/LV guy.

    Would be helpful for the Daily Show and Colbert Report or other 30-minute show combos to not suck up another tuner during that 1-minute overlap. It seems like a really obvious thing to do and stupid to use two tuners to do it.

    But the issue doesn't happen in the first place, unless the phone is taken out of it's case.

    I'm almost afraid to touch someone else's iPhone that doesn't have at least an Otterbox Commuter on it, if not a Defender or Lifeproof. They're just too darn fragile.
     
  2. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Active Member

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    Ellicott...
    This is an area where HTPCs with WMC have a clearcut advantage. With Tivos you have to combine recordings for instances like this to preserve your tuners or end up getting additional Tivos so you have enough tuners available. With HTPCs you add as many tuners as you like for just a little extra in cost.

    I don't like combining recordings simply because you lose the program title and episode information for the 2nd recording that's been tacked on at the end. You don't have this issue if you record each program individually using separate tuners.

    The ability to record using a single tuner for consecutive programs on the same channel while padding both shows is a novel idea and one that was likely patented by DirecTV. If that's the case then Tivo got a taste of their own medicine and would probably get sued up the wazoo by DirecTV if they ever tried to incorporate the same feature. I wouldn't hold my breath waiting for this feature to show up in any subsequent generation of Tivos if DirecTV does indeed have a lock on it.
     
  3. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    TiVo will automatically clip the padding if you're running out of tuners, but it would be nice to get the padding AND not use up two tuners. I don't have much of an issue because nothing is really competing at the 11:00 time slot, the big traffic jam is at 9PM, and so far those are all hour shows, but I still wish they did it right.

    If DirecTV patented that, then that clearly shows again how broken the patent system is. That's just an obvious thing to do.
     
  4. CuriousMark

    CuriousMark Forum Denizen

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    Even if they did, doesn't TiVo's "no sue" clause with DTV mean that TiVo could go ahead and use it?

    I think the issue is probably technical and has more to do with the file system, how recordings are allocated and stored, than it has to do with business issues.
     
  5. Langree

    Langree The Gimp

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    Freezinmyass...
    I really think Bigg is just trolling for reaction, so I'm out.
     
  6. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Active Member

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    Ellicott...
    It may seem obvious to you, but I'd be surprised if it ever occurred to anyone when Tivos were first developed. If it did, chances are they couldn't figure out a way to implement it. When I realized that my S3 Tivos were clipping shows that overlapped, it was one of the major factors that pushed me towards using a HTPC instead. It's pretty clear that I like to have a lot of tuners and the thought of having an equivalent number of Tivos to suit my needs simply wasn't feasible. Having the ability to upgrade the basic platform with an almost unlimited number of tuners and numerous other things far outweighed any minor annoyances that WMC may have presented. You've got to look at the big picture and not get bogged down with the little things that turn out to be pretty insignificant in the end.
     
  7. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    That's probably true.

    Sorry you erroneously think that. I just say it like it is.

    It's a pretty obvious way to handle things. It would just make sense.
     
  8. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    John's...
    It's entirely possible that the original hardware simply wasn't capable of doing it.
     
  9. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Active Member

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    Ellicott...
    No, you just say it like you think it is. Facts and opinions aren't the same thing.;)

    If it's that obvious, don't you think Tivo would have added the feature if they could? If a feature is too expensive to include in a design, it's not going to be added in order to keep manufacturing costs down.
     
  10. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    It's far easier to implement this feature when everything is digital and you do not have to convert from analog.
     
  11. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    If you have clipping On. Which is one thing I never use. I would rather get the show from somewhere else than have several minutes of the show missing.
     
  12. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    I'm not going to claim that I'm a genius. I'm not. And it was obvious to me.

    It shouldn't matter, as the analog was digitized, so once it got to the drive it was effectively the same from the FS perspective anyways.

    It's close enough that you don't lose much.
     
  13. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    John's...
    You're not thinking it through. It matters precisely because the TiVo had to convert it. Consider this - you have back to back recordings scheduled on the same channel. One you aren't concerned about quality so set it for "Basic". The other, you do care, so you have set it for "Best". At what quality is the overlap recorded? Was the h/w even capable of switching in mid stream w/o missing anything?
     
  14. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    They would have to be the same quality. It would require a little bit of software and some UI elements, moreso than on current all-digital platforms.
     
  15. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    And if they're not? I'm sorry, but IMHO, it would have created more problems than it was worth. And as I indicated, I'm not even sure it was doable with the original h/w.
     
  16. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Active Member

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    Ellicott...
    It matters a great deal. The Tivo CPU is woefully underpowered in just about every model they've ever produced. The original analog Tivos had just about enough juice to handle a single stream for playback and recording. This is one area where Tivo has always been cheap in designing their DVRs. Another is the lack of sufficient memory.

    It's much less critical these days now that everything has gone digital. Recording a digital stream requires very little CPU power. Recording two separate streams from the same tuner may require a bit of processing, but I have no idea how much is involved. The architecture of recording the same signal as two separate digital streams may sound simple, but it's probably more complex than we realize. If it were really that simple I suspect that Tivo would have implemented it by now.

    I may have been obvious to Tivo as well, but probably not achievable with the technology available at the time. Perhaps Tivo will revisit this in the future, but for now, we're stuck with whatever technology they deem necessary.

    ANY loss is unacceptable. I see little point in using a DVR in a manner that's going to cut off part of the recording. Padding a Tivo recording isn't something you do because you want to. You do it because you have to.
     
  17. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    I don't believe the CPU is responsible for encoding but rather it is done by a special purpose chip but it could only handle one stream per tuner. Also, there would be some extra CPU processing required.

    It isn't actually necessary to record two separate streams. You could simply link the overlapping blocks to two recordings. The only problem with that method is that it makes the process for freeing up space more complicated, particularly when it comes to "Recently Deleted" recordings. Do DirecTV DVRs have a recently deleted folder? I know they didn't the last time I used one but that was 5 years ago.
     
  18. mr.unnatural

    mr.unnatural Active Member

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    Ellicott...
    That's a valid point. I suspect most of the processing done on a Tivo is performed by ASICs (i.e., Application Specific Integrated Circuits) that are designed for that purpose. The CPU is mostly for functioning with the Linux OS and controlling other basic software functions.

    I can't answer the question about DirecTV DVRs. I dropped DirecTV in favor of FIOS about 6 years ago. The main reason being that I had to decide whether or not to commit to another 2-year contract with DirecTV because my HR10-250 Tivos were about to become useless for DirecTV recording or switch to FIOS and get a S3 Tivo. The new DirecTV HD-DVRs were quite buggy at the time and I was more than a bit hesitant to get locked into a contract not knowing if they were going to pan out. I made the switch to FIOS and never regretted it for an instant.
     
  19. Richard Cranium

    Richard Cranium New Member

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  20. Bigg

    Bigg Active Member

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    It sucks on Mythbusters, but most other shows, that 10 seconds doesn't really matter, as it's just junk anyways. It's been a problem with DVRs and VCRs for a long time.

     

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