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Fringe - 1/11/13 - The Boy Must Live

Discussion in 'Now Playing - TV Show Talk' started by buckeyenut, Jan 12, 2013.

  1. Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey

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    Actually going back in time an hour to capture Donald might have changed EVERYTHING! Think about what happens if they capture Donald and he gives up Walter's plan.
     
  2. Anubys

    Anubys All About Footwork

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    The only thing that would thwart the Observers' plan is what the Fringe gang eventually do. The boy is not in their plan. If Donald is caught and the boy is destroyed, their (the observers') plan continues unabated.
     
  3. Steveknj

    Steveknj Lost in New Joisey

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    Yes, I wasn't referring to the Observer's plan, but Walter's. Remember the boy and Donald is the wildcard and Windmark knows it's important for some reason to stop them. He doesn't know exactly what the plan is, and he Windmark's boss doesn't know how it would change things if they went back the hour to capture Donald. When he went into the future and it appeared that the Observers were still in charge, I don't think the boss thought that going back an hour was wise, knowing what he did in the future. If he goes back that hour, destroys Walter's plan, does he "know" how that will effect the future they already "know?" If their mantra is not to affect the timelines, then going back an hour could destroy everything (butterfly effect and all that).
     
  4. BitbyBlit

    BitbyBlit .

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    It's possible, though, that Peter grows up on the Red Side, but people end up crossing over one way and/or the other later on, and he ends up meeting Olivia that way.

    One of the mistakes September was trying to fix was Etta not being born. While it's possible that that was a lesser mistake made after The Mistake, I think it points to Etta having existed in the pre-Observer timeline.

    I don't see that as an "easy way out". I think it is a good explanation that makes a lot of sense, and gives a good reason for introducing the second universe in the first place.

    Plus, so far it seems like the Observers should have been happy with their timeline, so it would make more sense that they would want to alter the timeline of the other universe rather than their own.

    The Observers are so focused on their ultimate goal that they cannot see the trees in the forest. Being able to process enough data to be able to make accurate predications of events has made them extremely methodical, and they have a specific plan that requires the timeline be altered in an orderly fashion.

    Keeping the the future and the past "time locked" together minimizes the amount of varibles that they have to account for in their calculations for what they need to do in order to achieve their desired outcome.

    But just as they missed the importance of September's child in human evolution when he was born, their calculations have underestimated the significance of the Fringe team, which Windmark is beginning to see. The leaders in the future, however, are too removed from events and sure of themselves to see anything else as possible than what they had calculated.
     
  5. Bierboy

    Bierboy Seasoned gas passer

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    What's the over/under on Etta "returning"?
     
  6. Anubys

    Anubys All About Footwork

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    100%. No doubt in my mind. The only question is if they go back to that day in the park or to the present day with her an adult.
     
  7. john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    That's obviously not true, if Windmark contemplates going back to an earlier time to stop September's meddling.

    I suppose you could combine your theory with "Observer rules" that you may not go back to a time earlier than you left + time spent in the future unless you have special permission. But that would be a silly rule, obviously only existing for convenience of the writers.
     
  8. john4200

    john4200 Active Member

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    This does not make sense. The Observers have already gone back in time and invaded the past. That is a huge change. Going back another hour from when they left for the future is a drop in the bucket.

    Besides, the Observers obviously exist in the future. If they are so concerned about changes to the past, then why did they invade the past at all? They risk totally destroying themselves.
     
  9. ACoolDude

    ACoolDude Active Member

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    Maybe crossing into established events is strictly forbidden. Except for cheap tricks. :D

    Didn't the boss guy say they couldn't go back further because the point in time they picked had a 99.999999% chance of success and they hadn't calculated the probabilities at other points (or something along those lines)
     
  10. Rob Helmerichs

    Rob Helmerichs I am Groot! TCF Club

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    But I think that would require opening a new time tunnel, not using the one they already use.

    Which is to say, I think it's relatively trivial to go back and forth between the "present" and the Observers' home time, using the existing time tunnel. To go to another time would not be trivial.

    But I suspect we are probably thinking about this more than they are. Fringe is not noted for its scientific rigor. ;)
     
  11. dianebrat

    dianebrat drastically off narrative TCF Club

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    For me the perfect tears swelling, kleenex ending is going to have to be that day with young Etta in the park, I'm fine if earlier in the finale we get to see 20 something Etta as long as the last scene is the park, even if they do it as a throwaway flashback from them, but that last scene, gotta be the park in my book.

    p.s. did I mention I have a lot of emotion vested in the park? :)
     
  12. Anubys

    Anubys All About Footwork

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    They have to end in current time, I would think. But it would be a time without the Observers, so they would have had a long and normal life with Etta around. But I see no reason why they can't still close on a flashback to that day to make everyone (you, especially) happy!
     
  13. Craigbob

    Craigbob Active Member

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    +1 here. I thought he both looked and sounded like Robin Williams. I had to rewind and rewatch that multiple times and I still wasn't sure it wasn't Mork.
     
  14. cmontyburns

    cmontyburns Excellent.

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    Well, obviously the writers have set this up to be convenient to themselves, no? Time travel stories always have some artifice to their rules (beyond the artifice of the time travel itself) to keep a semblance of logic and simplicity to the storytelling. In this case, the big artificial rule is the Chief Observer telling Windmark that the Fringe team doesn't matter in the big scheme of things, and that therefore there is no need to go back further in time and eradicate them.
     
  15. jehma

    jehma Active Member

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    I'm with you on this one. I want the completely happy ending for Peter, Olivia, and Etta (and Walter! and Astrid!) and the park scene would be a perfect one to end on.
     
  16. secondclaw

    secondclaw Member

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    I doubt it would be a happy ending - more like bitter-sweet. It wouldn't surprise me if the timeline without Peter (orange universe) is likely outcome. But I hope not.

    My ideal ending would also include meeting their alternate selves one more time, perhaps team up again to defeat the 'Observers'.

    I also wonder if the reason for the observers watching significant events was to:
    1 - Map out the point at which a significant event (the invasion) will succeed.
    2 - Study effect of significant events on the fabric of reality.
     
  17. Peter000

    Peter000 Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    Without the Observers ever being created, Peter dies as a kid in the lake when Walter tries to bring him back into the original universe from the Walternate-verse. September saved them after they went through the ice. No Observers, no September. No Peter. :( No Etta. :( :(
     
  18. secondclaw

    secondclaw Member

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    Without the observers, September specifically, Walternate would have found the cure to his son's illness and healed him, and Walter would have had no need to cross over. It is possible that Olivia will still meet Peter - as they work with the team from the other side dealing with Bell and his plan.

     
  19. Peter000

    Peter000 Well-Known Member TCF Club

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    How do you figure?

    ETA: And since Walter didn't cross over, Bell wouldn't have either, since Walter developed the tech for it specifically to go get Peter. Right? Or am I misremembering?
     
  20. secondclaw

    secondclaw Member

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    If I remember correctly, the 'window' tech to see into the alternate universe was Walter and Bell's LSD-induced idea long before Peter got sick. The tech was known to all of them, even the dangers involved were known (remember Nina tried to stop him from crossing over). Walter used the 'window' to watch Walternate work on the cure, and not only that, he was hoping Walternate's attempts would help him find the cure as well, but he was too late. Later he had seen September interfere. He ended up crossing over himself, and fought with Nina to get through (her arm was injured).
    Had September not been there, Walter would have seen Walternate identify the cure and possibly cure Peter, and there would be no need to cross over. Bell's war has nothing to do with Peter, but has everything to do with the trans-dimensional rift, so it likely would have still happened. And, wasn't it mentioned that Bell and Walter would steal stuff from the other side and sell it to the government - I believe long before Peter's death?

    I guess its all theories, but unless September was still operating and observing events, Peter's story would unravel differently. Observers may still be interested in studying important events and history may run same course - but that's extremely unlikely.

     

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