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free Tivo Desktop ending

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by ajwees41, May 4, 2013.

  1. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    You're making a jump there. All I meant was that because the free version will not work "out of the box" with Windows 8, or any future Windows release, TiVo is making the decision to require the purchase of Plus because it includes the codec required to guarantee playback of .tivo files. There is no guarantee they will do any more development on the product just because you're paying for it. The Plus version has been for sale for like 5 years now and has not been updated much at all in that time.

    Not true! At least not for TiVo files. TiVo files are in a special .tivo container which encrypted and only converted to standard MPEG02 after being run through the included DirectShow filter. VLC is not DirectShow based so it has no way to decrypt the .tivo files and thus no way to play them. To play .tivo files in Windows 8 you need a DirectShow MPEG-2 decoder. There are some free ones out there, but technically they violate the MPEG-LA license so TiVo can't really recommend people use them.
     
  2. Philmatic

    Philmatic Member

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    What I mean is that there is a strong indication (My gut) that they are working on a TiVo Companion App, like the TiVo app on iOS that allows you to manage your recordings, season passes, view the guide and hopefully, stream/transfer recordings from a TiVo Premiere via the TiVo Stream.

    I didn't mean to imply that the Tivo Desktop software was being ported, it's a very different beast.
     
  3. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    That is not how it works on my Win 8 machine I am watching a unmodified TiVo file in Windows media player as I type this. I thought it was because I installed VLC that it worked but I may have installed K-Lite Codec Pack also don't remember at this point. If I did it was an earlier version than what I linked to.
     
  4. gonzotek

    gonzotek tivo_xml developer

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    If you're watching it in WMP, than it is not because you installed VLC. VLC definitely does not hook into the directshow filter chain. Most likely it is the K-Lite codec pack, which contains the unlicensed MPEG2 codec Dan referred to. That's not something TiVo can support officially.
     
  5. morac

    morac Cat God

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    Any even then, it won't work unless TiVo Desktop is installed.
     
  6. atmuscarella

    atmuscarella Well-Known Member

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    Yes TiVo desktop is installed. But I honestly didn't think I had install the codec pack (the version of the file I have is 9.5.0.0) does anyone know where I can check to see if it is installed? I also have media center installed would that make it work? How about the HDHomerun software?

    In any event it doesn't appear to be that hard to make the current free version work (including playing the files) in Windows 8 as I apparently did it without thinking about it directly.
     
  7. mattack

    mattack Active Member

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    True, but those of us in the know (of which you are one) know about kmttg (and previously things like iTivo, but IMHO, that never worked great for me).
     
  8. alansh

    alansh New Member

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    Yeah, I'm certain the MPEG licensing is an issue. Since Windows no longer includes the codec, TiVo has to pay for one.

    To see what DirectShow filters you're using:
    1. Download and run GraphStudio.
    2. Drop a .TIVO file into the window. A graph will be built showing the filters that will be used.
    3. Select View->Graph Construction Report. This will show all the files involved.

    You can also double-click on a filter and check the Filter tab for details.

    My computer shows I'm using ffdshow, which I got by installing the package from http://www.mediaplayercodecpack.com/
     
  9. ggieseke

    ggieseke Active Member

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    From what I've read the Media Center codecs work.
     
  10. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Probably not. Windows 8 does not support encrypted HLS, the protocol they use for streaming, natively. There is a 3rd party SDK you can license that enables it but it was just released at NAB the first week of April so I don't think we'll see a product using it any time soon. Although I sent a contact of mine at TiVo a link to the SDK a few days ago, just in case they hadn't heard of it. I actually would like to see a Windows 8 version of the TiVo app with streaming because I would like to get a Windows 8 tablet.
     
  11. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Yes. MCE includes all the codecs that were in Win7. So with MCE installed it's the same as having Win7.
     
  12. twhiting9275

    twhiting9275 TV Buff!

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    Well, damn, didn't know 'free' was going away.

    Good thing I bought plus eons ago, I guess?
    Honestly, I have to say if it means something is done to improve the software , I'm all for it! I haven't seen any improvement in this in ages
     
  13. classicsat

    classicsat Astute User

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    Not kmttg. I have it on two PCs that haven't seen TiVo Desktop.
    Mind you I have only a Series 2 TiVo.
     
  14. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Yeah there is an open source decryption program called tivodecode. However it only works with the older PS based .tivo format. Premiere units use a newer TS based format. You can still download the old PS format but it's slower and wont work with H.264 channels. There is a patch for tivodecode that sort of works with TS files, but it's not 100% so it can introduce artifacts into the audio and video.
     
  15. waynomo

    waynomo My One Time TCF Club

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    So I have the 2.8.3 installer saved. Will I still be able to install this and have work after June 5th on let's say a new PC or an OS reinstall?
     
  16. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Should work. There is nothing in the software that would prevent it. I think they are just removing it from their site. Also you'll likely be excluded from any future enhancements.
     
  17. dd9

    dd9 New Member

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    ...and what if you're a DT+ member who has already paid? Will they allow that carryover or are we talking more cash?

    This does seem like a new way to squeeze cash from those who chose to take advantage of the poor business model of offering 'lifetime' service on things that would eventually need upgrading/improvements. ;)
     
  18. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    You should be fine.

    I think the main purpose for doing this is support. Including the playback codecs in the package not only guarantees it works on systems without them, like Windows 8, it also guarantees consistency. With the plus version they explicitly load the included codecs into the DirectShow graph when playing a .tivo file, so they know exactly which filters are being used to play the file and can guarantee a consistent experience. With the free version they leave it to Windows to build the graph with whatever codecs it has available and that can create all sorts of issues. Some codecs work better then others, sometimes the demuxer filter conflicts with the decoder, etc...

    We might also see a TiVo themed player offered. One with real FF/RW capabilities (or at least 30 second skip) and TiVo like controls and info overlays. That would be cool. :)
     
  19. ajwees41

    ajwees41 Active Member

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    It is gone from the tivo page
     
  20. twhiting9275

    twhiting9275 TV Buff!

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    Not terribly surprised that it's gone, now I'm just wondering how people that had it before (ie: plus members) are supposed to download it... hmmm
     

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