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Folders please!!

Discussion in 'TiVo Suggestion Avenue' started by rcase13, Sep 26, 2013.

  1. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    This image was posted as part of a review of the Premiere unit years ago...

    [​IMG]

    It shows an option where each user would have their own My Shows list where presumably they would only see the shows they requested.

    My vision for the feature would be that when setting up a recording, SP, or WL one of the options would the the ability to assign it to a specific user. (or multiple users) That would flag the show to show up in that particular users My Shows list. When a single show is assigned to multiple users then they would use reference counting for deleting. So basically when you delete a show it's moved to your Recently Deleted folder, but it's not physically deleted from the drive until all users who requested it have deleted it. Unless it's deleted from the All Users My Shows, then it's automatically deleted from all users. The To Do List and SP Manger would use some sort of color coding to designate which user a SP/Recording is designated to.

    There were also some mentions recently about a 3 tiered My Shows list. Assuming the current list has 2 tiers with groups on I assume the 3rd tier would add the ability to filter My Shows by category to help narrow results.
     
  2. yokito

    yokito New Member

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    New Hampshire
    While I would like the more elaborate request above - I think something that would be easier to implement would do the trick as well - instead of 'profiles' we could have Folders that a Season pass could record into.
    ;)
     
  3. Bphagan

    Bphagan brettdog

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    Dan,
    Thanks for the info.
    If Tivo implemented what you suggest, that would take care of many issues that we have in our household.
    Since we now have a RoamioPro with 2 Minis and have about 100 SPs that different people watch and some we all watch at different times, this would be a wonderful feature.
    We used to have a PremierXL and a Comcast DVR so the Wife/Daughter recordings went on the Comcast box and my/family SPs went on the Tivo. I didn't realize then how nice that was until now that everything is in one list.

    bdog
     
  4. opus472

    opus472 Member

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    Just curious, what are some of those reasons?
     
  5. Dan203

    Dan203 Super Moderator Staff Member TCF Club

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    Simplicity. You add too many options and you confuse the average Joe. And if you hide them so that only the power users can find them then they're a waste of time because they'll only get used by a small percentage of your users.
     
  6. opus472

    opus472 Member

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    Dunno, I'd bet Tivo has an awful lot of power users. Most of the average Joes are probably using DVRs provided by the cable/satellite companies (or they're not using DVRs at all)
     
  7. aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Northern...
    The majority of TiVo users are using cable company provided TiVos.
     
  8. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    Here is a great blog post about too many settings... TiVo has always kind of followed this model, they have a specific strategy and design and develop toward that strategy. It is why we still have a sprinkling of SD screens and it is why TiVo shies away from overly developed software with endless options.

    Custom folders would require the user to define and manage folders at the content level. It would be neat for a while, but most people wouldn't keep up with the maintenance and it would eventually become a mess.

    I just don't ever see TiVo doing it...

    http://flyosity.com/iphone/kill-the-settings-build-opinionated-software.php
    http://uxmyths.com/post/712569752/myth-more-choices-and-features-result-in-higher-satisfac
     
  9. opus472

    opus472 Member

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    A random listing of 600 recordings for 5 people doesn't sound simple to me.
     
  10. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    The average user doesn't have 600 random recordings. They have recordings that are already automatically organized into folders based on series ID and can further be organized using the filtering options on the left menu.

    TiVo has designed and delivered organization mechanisms for content. What they haven't delivered, and I suggest they won't deliver, is a highly customizable manual foldering option.

    I also suggest that any such scheme would both conflict with existing organization mechanisms and benefit only a very small subset of festidiuos users.

    People might start to use it as a novelty, but like most "organization schemes" anything manual would get stale and ignored in short order by "most" people.
     
  11. trip1eX

    trip1eX Active Member

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    Yeah I'm for simple and don't think folders being something the everyday user will use.

    If they want to go after digital hoarders then folders would be good.

    But the vast majority of us time shift our tv. We don't archive it.
     
  12. opus472

    opus472 Member

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    Of course, you could say the same thing about computers - why should we allow users to change filenames and manually set up folders, let's just simplify it and dump everything into one folder.

    There seems to be support for profiles, but I'm not sure what's the difference between setting up a profile for each family member and setting up a folder for each.
     
  13. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    First, a computer and a device like a TiVo are not the same thing.

    But in reality, even though you can create and manage folders on a computer - most people dump all their files either on the desktop or in the documents folder. :cool:

    You act like TiVo has no folders at all and just places a list of content in your now playing list - and that is just not true. TiVo has both foldering and filtering....


    Just as a fun exercise, how would you (or anyone else) implement a foldering solution on a TiVo today? Are you wanting to separate the current lists by genre? By user? Would you need sub foldering as part of this new structure?

    Would custom filters (added into the Left menu) provide the same functionality you are looking for?


    /////

    I will start - I have often thought that profiles would be a good idea, but I think it would be easier to simply allow custom filters. A simple mechanism that allows you to define a custom filter and include it in the left hand menu (You should be able to custom sort that list too).

    When you create a Wishlist, OnePass or individual recording, a drop-down allows you to select a custom filter (with mutli-select?). From my perspective, this is easier to manage and cleaner to implement than custom folders.

    But to be clear, I really don't think TiVo will implement this scheme either.
     
  14. opus472

    opus472 Member

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    Not sure if the Roamio offers additional organizing options, but my HD allows for only alphabetical or chronological order. Looking mainly for something that would allow separation by family member, so each person doesn't have to scroll down thru pages and pages of recordings to find what they want. Custom folders might do it, as might profiles, depending on implementation.
     
  15. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    Well, of course your HD wouldn't get an update - I assume this might be a determining factor in upgrading. And to be clear, your HD does folder by series - so if you setup a season pass for Big Bang Theory, all those shows will go into a folder called Big Bang Theory. If you set up a Whislist - same thing.

    The Premiere and Roamio TiVo's have added a static filtering mechanism that I affectionately call the left menu. Items in this list can be included, excluded or the menu can be removed all together - you cannot create a custom filter.

    [​IMG]
     
  16. samccfl99

    samccfl99 I Am Sometimes Vocal

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    coconut...
    i guess that is why i dont have a "rotten apple" for a cell phone. TIVO developers are idiots. THERE ARE NOT ENOUGH OPTIONS. they do not give a cr*p about us users and they come up with stupid ideas and do what they want. when was the last time they modified the DVR??? it is a dvr, not a magic box. the DVR itself, except for the buffering of all tuners all the time, is archaic (yes, it does run great). how about 15 minute tics always and adding a 4th FF/REV speed. how about ONE HOUR BUFFERS. HOW ABOUT FIXING TIVO CENTRAL TO NOT CUT OUT THE SOUND WHEN GOING IN AND OUT OF IT??? AND much more their pea brains do not think about or listen to good suggestions.
     
  17. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    [​IMG]

    I think this is why I get so testy some times...
     
  18. opus472

    opus472 Member

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    Guess I could assign individual family members to each of those items and use that as a workaround. Though I suppose my wife wouldn't appreciate being referred to as Going Away Soon.
     
  19. bradleys

    bradleys It'll be fine....

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    I love that!

    I know you are kidding, but it is important to understand TiVo doesn't provide a mechanism to tag content for filtering. Each of these filters use existing system meta data.

    Custom filtering, similar to what they are doing in the left menu could be implemented and it technically wouldn't matter if ithey were used to define user profiles or any other arbitrary custom filter.

    In order for it to work TiVo would have to provide a mechanism for custom tagging at the content level. Those tags would need to be optionally captured both as part of a OnePass and individual recordings. More effort than value?

    As for literal folders (as in computers) - they make absolutely no functional sense to me. If someone could explain how this would function in the wild, I am all ears!

    Sam, care to share your design ideas?
     
  20. opus472

    opus472 Member

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    Without any knowledge of the tech details, seems to me the listing of recordings must be a file system of some type. Ideally, I'd envision the ability to sign in to the Tivo from the PC, set up manual folders for each family member, and use drag-and-drop to move recordings into the folders.

    As with other PC files, recordings could exist in more than one folder at a time, so they could also be segregated by genre, archive, etc. Then I could delete a recording from my folder and still have it in archive to watch again later or save for someone else to watch.

    A 3T drive can hold thousands of recordings. It's hard for me to comprehend why other folks apparently don't consider it a problem that there's little functional ability to organize these recordings.
     

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