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FCC's Online media complaint form against Comcast

Discussion in 'TiVo Coffee House - TiVo Discussion' started by buscuitboy, Jun 5, 2012.

  1. pdhenry

    pdhenry Safety Pin

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    lpwcomp will only be happy when DTAs have the same fee as a set-top box (and then he'll be miserable).
     
  2. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    John's...
    Since satellite companies aren't covered by CableCARD regulations and none of the CableCARD using TiVos will even work on a satellite system, how exactly is this relevant?

    In order to be compliant with the FCC regulations and still get the same revenue, Comcast's rate sheet would have to read something like the folllowing:

    "First CableCARD in primary outlet $0
    First CableCARD in additional outlet $7.45/mo
    Second CableCARD in same device $1.50
    User Owned Equipment Credit (applies only to primary outlet) $2.50/mo

    TiVo probably isn't interested in getting involved. If the true charges for using multiple TiVos on Comcast were known, it would make a TiVo a less attractive option.
     
  3. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    John's...
    :rolleyes: That's the most inane comment you've made on this subject , and that's saying a lot. Apparently you will only be happy when everyone just lies back and enjoys it.
     
  4. pdhenry

    pdhenry Safety Pin

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    But if the DTA cost the same as a set-top box, you'd have no argument.

    You claim that Comcast thinks they've found a loophole, but others are observing that you are the one who seems to think he has found a loophole.
     
  5. generaltso

    generaltso Member

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    lpwcomp, what devices do you have in your home and how much is Comcast charging you?
     
  6. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    John's...
    Wrong again. The fee differential just makes it more obvious what Comcast is doing and gives you something to throw in their face when arguing with Comcast. It is not the basis for my argument.

    :rolleyes: No,buscuitboy said that Comcast found a loophole and I responded they only think they found a loophole.

    You (and the others) have a very odd definition of loophole. I'm not trying to get around anything. I'm trying to prevent Comcast from getting around the regulations.
     
  7. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    John's...
    Ignoring the problem of trying to prove a negative, I have stated my premise ("Comcast is in violation of FCC regulations governing CableCARDs") and have provided supporting arguments based on facts - the official Comcast rate sheet and the relevant FCC regulations as summarized by the CableCARD: Know Your Rights page. In response, all I have gotten is either "This is what Comcast says and there's nothing we can do about it so just shut up" or "That's just your opinion". Neither of those is a valid counter argument.

    This is not a criminal prosecution in which there is an assumption of innocence. In the face of the evidence to the contrary, it is supposed to be up to the FCC to make Comcast prove that they are in compliance. Instead, apparently their only response to a complaint is to inform Comcast and then file it in the bitbucket.

    Do you really think that the CableCARD charge that the regulations(FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(5), 76.1602(b)) require a cable operator to document isn't supposed to include the ability to actually fully utilize the card as specified in FCC Rule 76.1205(b)(4)?
     
  8. generaltso

    generaltso Member

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    It's obvious that nothing anyone says will change your view. The fee in question has nothing to do with cable cards. It's a fee that's levied on the second outlet regardless of whether you have a cable card or a cable box. That's why it's not a violation. It's also why the a/o fee is not listed with the cable card fees.

    Have you asked Comcast to limit the channels you receive on your cable card to ONLY the channels that you would receive with a DTA? If they did that, I could see your argument that you shouldn't pay the a/o fee because you wouldn't have to with a DTA. However, if your cable cards are getting all the channels that a cable box would get, you're going to pay the same a/o fee that a cable box would require and there's no regulation against that.

    Do you have two TiVos? A TiVo and a cable box? A different mix?
     
  9. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    John's...
    I have a DCT2000 from Comcast connected to(a/v(composite)) and controlled by(serial) a TiVo 2. That is my primary outlet. I also have a THD and 2 Premieres. The second Premiere doesn't currently have a CableCARD but I plan to pick one up next Tuesday(6/12) (assuming I still consider it worth the effort after discussing my treatment options at the VAMC) and install and activate it on the following Friday(6/15) since I won't be back home until late Thursday night.

    Currently, I have the following items on my bill:

    Digital Starter 62.95

    Digital Service 19.90
    Qty 2 @ $9.95 each

    Customer Owned Equipment -2.50
    Adjustment

    Customer Owned Equipment -2.50
    Adjustment

    Franchise Fees 2.64

    Federal Regulatory Fee 0.08

    State and Local Taxes 0.14
     
  10. generaltso

    generaltso Member

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    What if you switched one of your TiVos to be your primary outlet? Then one of your a/o fees would move to the DCT2000 box. Would you see that as a violation of FCC rules?
     
  11. generaltso

    generaltso Member

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    Actually, your own quote may prevent Comcast from even being allowed to do this.

    Receive all “linear” channels (channels other than “on-demand”) in your subscription package.

    They can give you a DTA that receives less than all of your linear channels, but it doesn't look like they're allowed to limit a cable card the same way, which could potentially get around the a/o fee.
     
  12. WhiskeyTango

    WhiskeyTango New Member

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    None of your evidence supports the idea that charging an AO for a cable card is against any regulations. I've read through the regulations you linked and I don't see how any of them are being violated by the AO fee. You just keep asking about full use of the card, how is the AO fee limiting your use of a cable card?
     
  13. cherry ghost

    cherry ghost Active Member

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    The only violation I see on my bills is that they don't list the cost of the cablecards separately.

    Digital Access Fee - $26.85
    Includes: Cable card and Digital Access
    3 @ $8.95 each

    Cusomer owned equipment adjustment - 3 @ -$2.50 each


    I could complain, but I doubt the overall price would change.
     
  14. generaltso

    generaltso Member

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    How many TiVos do you have? Assuming the "Digital Access" on your bill is the A/O fee, shouldn't you only have 2 of those since the first outlet wouldn't have this fee?
     
  15. cherry ghost

    cherry ghost Active Member

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    I have 4. The $2.50 credit should be 4, not 3.
     
  16. generaltso

    generaltso Member

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    Well, I guess that's one thing to complain about. They owe you another $2.50 a month.
     
  17. cherry ghost

    cherry ghost Active Member

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    No, my bill does say 4, I mistyped.
     
  18. generaltso

    generaltso Member

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    Ah, okay.
     
  19. lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

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    John's...
    Do you not understand that the regulations require them to explicitly provide via the rate sheet "Accurate information on the rental cost of a CableCARD."? Do you not understand that it would be ridiculous to assume that this does not have to reflect the full cost for actually using a CableCARD or that it refers to the primary outlet only? Do you not understand that $7.45/mo is the true cost of using a CableCARD in other than the primary device rather than the $0 reflected in their rate sheet? Do you not understand that the DTA fee differential is a minor point and that if you wish to proceed, you should actually address the main points of my argument rather than ignoring them.

    The above questions are rhetorical as it is quite obvious that you in fact do not understand.

    One other point that I haven't made here but have made to Comcast - beyond providing the CableCARD, pairing, and authorizing it, Comcast has zero responsibility for maintenance of the various outlets. The splits are all internal (built-in as far as the wall outlet) and Comcast does not maintain internal wiring unless you pay extra.
     
  20. generaltso

    generaltso Member

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    I completely understand the regulations. The rental cost of a Cable Card is accurately reflected on the rate sheet. The same rate sheet also lists the additional outlet fee. This fee is not included in the Cable Card section, because it doesn't only apply to Cable Cards. Why would they list the additional outlet fee in the Cable Card section, the DVR section, and the cable box sections? Doesn't it accomplish the same thing to list the additional outlet fee in one place since it applies to all devices.

    You can repeat the same information as often as you'd like. It won't change the fact that the a/o fee does not violate the FCC Cable Card rules as long as the same fee is levied against the Comcast cable boxes.

    If one of the a/o fees on your bill was on your cable box instead of a cable card, would you be satisfied that it isn't violating the rules? If so, just call Comcast and have them change one of you cable cards to the primary outlet. It won't change the amount of your bill, but it would be one less violation in your eyes, right?
     

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