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Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by jcostom, Mar 30, 2010.
So I just read through way too much of this thread. I assume that the version that is supposed to allow you to bless an external drive for use on a Tivo has not been released yet?
No. Tivo has an issue with too much of storage
I'm going to attempt a 2TB WDEARS(9/08) in my Premiere. Can anyone give me a quick pointer on what I need to do other than the instructions in Comer's sig?
I see a lot of people using the WD AV drives. Are these drives really better for AV applications? I have 2 1 TB drives lying around, both Seagate. Should I consider using one of them, or do the AV drives withstand the 24/7 writing the Tivo does to the HD better than a standard hard drive does?
So, less than 2 weeks after adding external 2TB drive, my TIVO is not longer functioning. The counter got to -380% and then Tivo got stuck in reboot cycle with GSODs in between.
Not good, not good...
Disconnected external storage, went through Tivo storage removal process, everything is back to normal, except that pretty much everything recorded since last two weeks is gone.
Interesting observation. It appears that Tivo used the external drive for all new recordings, at least based on the removal pattern. Also the 3xTD + Enter could only be entered with Tivo IR remote, not the RF with a keyboard.
Granted my experience does not constitute a full regression test. It's possible that my external drive was bad, but I think I'll wait a bit more before I experiment again with a "production" system. My better half lost her latest Desperate Housewives and couldn't use Tivo for the whole day today, so I'm in trouble now...
When the professionals stopped offering the 2+2 that was a warning something was not working correctly as been said before, your experience just confirmed a problem. We will all have to live with 327 hours of HD record time until or unless another solution is found.
I am sorry, man Download it and your uberness shall be restored
Thanks a lot for trying it, great contribution!
Well, yeah, that what you get for being a guinea pig, but someone has to try it. It would've been nice if the "professionals" contributed to the community if only by giving a warning. Both "professionals" gave vague answers about disappearance of 2+2, with one claiming not having drives in stock (!). IMO, the number of enthusiasts willing to do the upgrade themselves is infinitesimal to affect any business model. The "professionals" would get much respect by contributing back to the community that added a great deal to their success.
BTW, I checked the drive, it appears perfectly healthy. All SMART parameters are green, don't see any issues at all. It would be much better if it was a particular bad drive vs. the obvious alternative...
Sorry to hear about that...TiVo Pioneers sometimes pay the price for the rest. Thanks for giving it a shot.
FWIW recordings are striped across both the internal and external drives (to meet certain regulations), not dedicated to one or the other so no matter what happens, when an external drive is divorced all recordings made since the expansion drive was attached will be lost.
Glad to hear your second drive is good...you can always repurpose it. At least your TiVo still has 2TB's of real estate! Thanks again for putting yourself out there.
One thing to consider about A/V drives is they are probably using a different firmware algorithm to recover from bad sectors.
For a typical consumer drive the mfr sets the firmware to retry and retry and retry and retry for a long time when it encounters a bad sector. That way Joe Sixpack is less likely to lose any files from his porn collection.
But A/V is different. Nobody wants to have a box freeze up while the drive retries. So instead the drive will report an error more quickly (and return bad data). This bad block might cause some pixellation on the screen, but then life goes on, the show goes on.
I don't know how frequently that situation occurs. Sorry to not have anything more constructive to tell you.
I just ordered a 2TB WD AV drive from Buy.com for $114.
On reading Western Digital product information I got the impression what they have in mind for the design of the AV drives is commercial DVR use, like for CCTV DVRs constantly recording multiple streams or theaters(?) or POS displays. In other words really 7x24 heavy recording use. Yeah, in our TiVo we are constantly recording 2 streams, but some CCTV DVRs record 8 streams.
So the AV drive is overkill for a TiVo but for me it's a good choice to spend the extra $20 or so when I'm buying the drive purposely for the TiVo.
The mission for a regular drive is more random read/write access than a DVR needs. That's why, among other things, for general purpose PC use the more cache on the drive is better, but for DVR use it barely matters.
I'd have no hesitation to use the regular WD Green drive if the street price of the AV drive wasn't that close.
just because SMART says things are OK doesn't mean they are. Also, even if you do a full surface-scan Read with no errors, doesn't mean the drive is OK. (I found that out the hard way, at ~800G in to a 1TB drive, a few years back.) I see people buying new drives all the time and installing them, assuming they must be fine because they are new. Odds are they may be, but a significant percentage are not, depending on brand and how they were packed for shipping. They then report a few weeks or months later about how their new drive went bad so soon, when in fact it was already bad when they slipped it out of the anti-stat bag. They just didn't know it yet.
If you really want to know if your drive is 100% or not, I'd recommend that you download and run the Lifeguard Diagnostic utility from Western Digital. This can be run on drives from any manufacturer.
Run the Quick Test first, which will weed out any obviously bad drives in about a minute. I also like to start (and then stop after 20 seconds) the Extended Test, which exercises the servos to move the heads rapidly around in a random pattern. But then abort, since that test only performs a Read, and won't find all potential problems. The last step is the slow one, which is Write Zeroes with Full Erase. You'll find that on a 2 TB drive this will run for 22-23 hours (at least mine does, off a SATA-USB2 interface cable... eSATA may be faster), but when it finishes you'll know for sure. If there are any spots on the drive where blocks cannot be successfully written, this will find them.
Using this methodology has kept me from putting ~7 defective drives into operation over the years (which went right back to Newegg), out of about 100 or so. Of course, not all of those were 2 TB drives, maybe 50 or 60 (the majority were 1.5 TBs). I found the time spent on burn-in acceptance testing to be very worthwhile to me. YMMV.
I agree with your observation, and I think a large part of the problem is because consumer grade drives are dirt cheap. Which means the manufacturers can't afford to test them very well.
It takes about 3 hrs to do a single read pass of a 1 TB drive. A manufacturer is making millions of these drives a year. So he can't afford to do too many surface scans on any individual drive. I suspect that the manufacturing test involves no more than 1 full write pass followed by 1 full read test. Or maybe not even that, maybe just a read of 10% of sectors. Plus of course additional tests on a very small subset of sectors. This is not sufficient testing to weed out marginal drives. That's where the end user comes in. They're the final QC.
success with a WD20EARS! lowered AAM to 128, ran wdidle3, copied, expanded, supersized. No problem with a reboot through the menus.
Thanks Comer!!! and Rich!! and everyone else!
No problem Congratulations, enjoy!
You were going to try and find a way to get any external to work on a Tivo. Have you given up on that?
External - no problem. More than 2TB - no way.
So if you want to add a 100G external to stock 320G - it's all fine.
But if you expanded to full 2TB and want to add 100G to that - there's a bug.
So, if I bought an external, say a 1 TB. How do I get that to work with my Tivo Premiere?