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Drive upgrades in a Premiere unit?

Discussion in 'TiVo Premiere DVRs' started by jcostom, Mar 30, 2010.

  1. Sep 16, 2010 #621 of 1486
    gamo62

    gamo62 New Member

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    Oct 12, 2002
    Thanks. That will be great.
     
  2. Sep 16, 2010 #622 of 1486
    simon7

    simon7 New Member

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    Mar 26, 2008
    I've been waiting to buy a 2TB WD Green drive, but recently the Newegg reviews have gone from mixed to outright abysmal. I generally trust WD, but there must have been a bad batch or something.

    As a possible alternative, does anyone have any experience or advice on these Samsung F4 drives in a Premiere? They use only 3 platters for 2TB so there should theoretically be some reliability benefit to that. Are 4096 byte physical sectors a problem for Tivo? Anyone know if I can adjust acoustics on a Samsung. Thanks!
     
  3. Sep 16, 2010 #623 of 1486
    wp746911

    wp746911 New Member

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    Feb 18, 2005
    simon7 I wouldn't put much faith in online reviews of hard drives. ALL hard drives have a failure rate- and whenever one fails they are usually catastrophic and the owners are pissed and want to let the whole world know how crappy X manufactorer is. WD makes fine hard drives. I personally got a WD b/c it seems that they are popular on this forum- I actually got one in the same family (WD av/gp) as the one that is in the tivo premiere stock.
     
  4. Sep 16, 2010 #624 of 1486
    comer

    comer New Member

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    Aug 7, 2003
    Interesting point... Tivo relies on 512 byte/sector. However, I think that 4K/sector means that hardware will always read 4K, but will give out as much as requested.
    There may be some performance degradation and redundant reads. As I imagine, for example Tivo requests to read 1 sector of 512 bytes. Drive's firmware reads 4K instead and discards 3.5K. Then Tivo requests to read the next sector. Drive reads 4K again, and so on. It could be mitigated through the cache though... :confused:
     
  5. Sep 16, 2010 #625 of 1486
    Bai Shen

    Bai Shen Toboggan noggin

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    Dec 17, 2004
    AFAIK, 4k drives will work in 512 systems. However, you have to make sure the partitions are correctly aligned. WD has an alignment tool you can use if your OS doesn't support it natively.

    Not sure how that works for tivo. I'd assume that once you're done setting up the drive that you'd run the alignment tool. But I have no way to know for sure.

    I do believe that some people in this thread have gotten 4k drives working in their tivos.
     
  6. Sep 16, 2010 #626 of 1486
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Although WD's 2TB hard drives have less than a year of history it would be apparent by now if they had a major problem. Historically there have been hard drives that were obviously problematic and when that happens there are no doubts. The Seagate 1.5TB drive comes to mind. There were literally thousands of reports of problems all over the Internet from the day that they were released. Firmware updates and replacements calmed things down after a few months but a lot of folks still steer clear of them.

    So I can understand the concern but looking back the reports of DOA or failed drives is about the same per capita as those for the 1TB models which are widely used by TCF members. The ratings on newegg are four out of five and the same goes for Amazon. As wp746911 mentioned, one thing to keep in mind is that the general public doesn't take the time to rate products and those that do have often had problems so negative reports can really skew things.

    Samsung drives on the other hand have never been recommended for TiVo due to their spotty record of performance. There a a few folks using their 1TB Spinpoint drives but there are many more reports of problems either after they were in use for a while or in a number of cases that they wouldn't even boot up. That happened to yours truly a while back. The drive is working fine as a backup but I never could get it to work in a TiVo HD.

    FWIW the 1TB WD10EARS is a two-platter drive and the 2TB WD20EARS is a three-platter drive.

    Your call of course, but based on the positive experiences of WD's 1TB GP drives over the period of a couple of years, the positive feedback about the 2TB models on this thread (and other forums) as well as current ratings I wouldn't hesitate to use them.

    BTW the 4K sector build in WD's GP 1TB drives haven't presented any problems for TiVo Series3's, HD's or HDXL's. AFAIK no one has reported any issues with the 2TB models either.

    Happy upgrading!
     
  7. Sep 16, 2010 #627 of 1486
    cr33p

    cr33p New Member

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    Jan 2, 2005
    Ann Arbor MI
    Awesome, keep us posted :) My 2tb just arrived today :) Time to have some fun.
     
  8. Sep 16, 2010 #628 of 1486
    comer

    comer New Member

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    Aug 7, 2003
    Which WD models have 4K sectors?
     
  9. Sep 16, 2010 #629 of 1486
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    IIRC all of WD's GP drives since December. Per this article...

    Since TiVo is a Unix/Linux/Apple hybird of sorts there haven't been any reported problems; only affecting older Windows machines AFAIK.

    Good info here:

    http://www.tomshardware.com/reviews/wd-4k-sector,2554.html
     
  10. Sep 16, 2010 #630 of 1486
    tcfcameron

    tcfcameron (4) 2TB TiVo HDs

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    Aug 4, 2010
    The WDXXEADS has 512, the WDXXEARS is 4K, I believe the "R" is the common denominator for 4K with WD drives. It's my understanding that they intend to phase out the non-4K drives over time, especially in the 2TB line. It is also my understanding that any drive larger than 2TB will only be available in the 4K sector size.
     
  11. Sep 16, 2010 #631 of 1486
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    According to various articles that seems to be the case. IIRC the EARS series is a direct replacement for the EADS.

    Per the Tom's Hardware article:

     
  12. Sep 16, 2010 #632 of 1486
    comer

    comer New Member

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    Aug 7, 2003
    Tom's is Tom's, but WD specs says 512b for EARS.
    http://www.wdc.com/en/products/products.asp?driveid=763
     
  13. Sep 16, 2010 #633 of 1486
    RichB

    RichB Member

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    Apr 2, 2003
    Massachusetts
    Interesting article.
    It looks like there could be a big performance hit if TiVo writes 256 bytes at a time and the partitions are not aligned.

    Could TiVo partitions be aligned with the WD tools (I am not sure if TiVo even used partitions)?

    - Rich
     
  14. Sep 16, 2010 #634 of 1486
    RichB

    RichB Member

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    Apr 2, 2003
    Massachusetts
  15. Sep 16, 2010 #635 of 1486
    comer

    comer New Member

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    Aug 7, 2003
    That's it.

    1,000,204M/1,953,525,169 = 512. <- period
     
  16. Sep 17, 2010 #636 of 1486
    cr33p

    cr33p New Member

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    Jan 2, 2005
    Ann Arbor MI

    Awesome write up thanks
    However I am having some issues
    I loaded Ubuntu on my lappy, installed both JRE 6 and DDrescue, copied my Javabin to the documents folder under a dir called javabin, I navigate to it, run the commands but I recieve an error from these commands

    sudo hdparm &#8211;i <old drive>
    /dev/sdc:
    HDIO_DRIVE_CMD(identify) failed:Invalid Exchange
    HDIO_GET_IDENTIITY Failed:Invalid argument

    I get the same error when I run it for the <new drive>

    Also when I run my command

    ./testLayout.sh <old drive> " I recieve a permission denied error. I then followed it up with the "sudo" but get the error
    sudo: testLayout.sh: command not found

    what gives???????
     
  17. Sep 17, 2010 #637 of 1486
    cmonroe

    cmonroe New Member

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    Sep 1, 2007
    Followed the instructions in this thread using a WD20EARS in my Premiere and it worked great! Very nice set of tools. Before I begin I set the acoustic management to 128, and did not jumper pin 7 and 8. So far my Premiere has been up and running for almost 24 hours with no issues. Thanks guys!
     
  18. Sep 17, 2010 #638 of 1486
    RichB

    RichB Member

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    Apr 2, 2003
    Massachusetts
    I just ran this command first to be root for the duration:

    sudo -s

    My upgrade went well using the midlomuncher procedure (Thanks).
    I had to make sure the system searched for all the packages.
    Then it was fine.

    I also had to set my controller the AHCI mode. The disks were not found in IDE mode.

    Thanks comer for the scripts. I came away with 290 hours of HD.

    I do find the EARS drive appears slower than my stock PXL.
    I wonder if a WD black drive with AAM set might be a better choice for performance. Anyone tried that?

    - Rich
     
  19. Sep 17, 2010 #639 of 1486
    midlomuncher

    midlomuncher New Member

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    Jan 29, 2007
    cr33p,

    I can't help will this, maybe comer can chime in with his expertise.

    JS
     
  20. Sep 17, 2010 #640 of 1486
    comer

    comer New Member

    267
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    Aug 7, 2003
    It can happen when your controller is not recognized (no driver) or the drives are connected through USB. It's not a problem as long as you know which drive is which - i.e. as an example (YMMV) that /dev/sda is your source Tivo drive and /dev/sdb is your new big drive. If you don't and have no way of knowing (hdparm does not work) - do not change the SATA ports(!), disconnect one of the drives and see which one disappeared in your system ;)

    Use "sudo" before command: "sudo ./testLayout.sh <drive>"
     

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