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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Jul 23, 2014 #9901 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    semi-coastal NC
    Advice to do expansion as separate step still applies.

    Do not use the

    -x

    option when doing

    restore

    or

    copying via

    backup | restore

    use

    mfsadd

    after doing copy and checking drive with

    mfsinfo

    You could use

    hdparm

    on the MFS Live cd to make a 2TB think it's a 1TB, if necessary, or just leave it as is and let MFS Live make the third MFS pair as large as it will, and then find a friend with a "Winders" machine that'll let you stick WinMFS on it and finish the expansion on it, even after MFS Live has expanded it.

    (which reminds me, I need to see if WinMFS can run, on XP, from a floppy, since it's small enough to fit)
     
  2. Jul 26, 2014 #9902 of 10248
    84lion

    84lion New Member

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    0
    Jan 22, 2009
    Hello, hope someone can help. I wanted to back up my wife's Tivo HD XL. It's a TCD658000. IIRC, the unit was a refurb unit from Tivo, we got it as a replacement for my wife's initial Tivo which HDD failed within warranty. I'm using winmfs on a Windows 7 computer. Winmfs sees the drive but says it’s only 63GB (the drive is a 1 TB WD10EVVS) and says it’s not a Tivo drive, therefore will not initiate backup or copy. My wife’s Tivo is currently working fine, boots properly, no issues, no noise issues. I just want to back up the drive so that if the drive would fail, I would have a ready pop-in replacement drive available. Any thoughts on why this issue is occurring? I’m running winmfs as administrator. Thanks!
     
  3. Jul 27, 2014 #9903 of 10248
    jmbach

    jmbach der Neuerer

    1,557
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    Jan 1, 2009
    A couple of questions. One are you right clicking and then clicking on "Run as an Administrator" as you have to do that even if you are logged on as an Administrator. Two are you connecting the drive via sata, esata, or USB to the computer.

    As another approach, you can use DvrBARS to make a truncated backup of the drive.
     
  4. Jul 27, 2014 #9904 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    In addition to the whole "are you really running as admin" thing, be sure it's looking at the right drive, make sure you didn't look at the drive with any software (like Windows disk manager)other than WinMFS, are you connecting the drive directly to a SATA port on the motherboard or using a USB (or firewire) adapter and, a long shot, but what brand is that PC motherboard?


    Do you know how to burn a cd-r "as an image"?

    (we might want you to boot that PC with something other than the Windows drive at some point)
     
  5. Jul 27, 2014 #9905 of 10248
    master1108

    master1108 New Member

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    Nov 29, 2008
    My understanding is that TiVoHD can't handle more than 1.26 TB. That's 160 GB original plus 1.1 TB maximum addition. Is this true? And if so why replace with a 2 TB drive?

    I need to replace a failing hard drive on My HD box. I was able to do a truncated backup with WinMFS however. I am hoping to be able to copy the disk.
     
  6. Jul 27, 2014 #9906 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    semi-coastal NC
    All three of the Series 3 models have been able to handle partitions larger than 1.2 since the software was updated to version 11.0h, although it was already up to 11.0k by the time most of us found that out.

    You do have to specifically tell WinMFS that it's okay to make the partition bigger than 1.2, and you'll avoid a possible headache by doing the copying or image restoring, saying no when it offers to expand, and then checking the target drive with

    mfsinfo

    to make sure everything looks okay and only then as a separate step doing the expansion with

    mfsadd


    since sometimes it doesn't actually do the expansion when you do it all at once.
     
  7. Jul 27, 2014 #9907 of 10248
    84lion

    84lion New Member

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    Jan 22, 2009
    Thanks for the feedback. The PC I am using is a Dell Precision M6600. It does have a SATA port but winmfs sees the USB port just fine for the blank drive.
    The external adapter that I had the Tivo drive in was a USB 3.0 adapter. The external adapter with the blank drive was a USB 2.0 adapter. I might try putting the Tivo drive in the USB 2.0 adapter instead and see if that makes any difference.
    Yes, I can burn a CD-R via an image. I have an older PC running XP with an old copy of Nero that I use to burn CDs. It did a great job with the image file that I used to set the blank WD HDDs using wdidle3.
    I appreciate your help. Don't know when I'll be able to get to try the backup again but when I do I'll provide a report.
     
  8. Jul 27, 2014 #9908 of 10248
    master1108

    master1108 New Member

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    Nov 29, 2008
    So the sticky at the beginning of this thread needs to be updated.

    Curious, where did you get this information?
     
  9. Jul 28, 2014 #9909 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Apr 28, 2006
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    Here on TCF, somewhere, about 2 years ago, but don't expect me to be able to remember exactly where.

    Actually, I first saw someone say that 11.0k would let you break the 1.2TB per partition barrier, and only later saw someone else mention that it was actually in 11.0h that they made whatever change they made that made that possible.

    This was about the same time that I was discovering that WinMFS can actually increase the size of that third MFS Media partition to take advantage of extra space, a trick of which I don't think the older MFS Live or MFS Tools are capable.
     
  10. Jul 28, 2014 #9910 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    I think there are too many layers of abstraction between USB3 ports and the motherboard for some purposes, and WinMFS on Win7 may be one of them.

    USB2 won't be all that much slower that you can't tolerate it just that once.

    But as to the cd image burning, I was thinking you might make yourself a bootable copy of the MFS Live cd v1.4 or the latest Ultimate Boot CD, and run

    hdparm -N /dev/sdX

    where X is wherever you've got that drive hooked up to to see if it shows you a result in the form

    number/differentnumber


    to see if the explanation for that 63GB figure was some sort of hidden partition or Host Protected Area that got on there somehow.

    But try it with USB2 first.
     
  11. Jul 29, 2014 #9911 of 10248
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Cox Cable...
    That was me. The 11.0h version allowed support of larger WD DVR expander drives, which hit the store shelves, catching TiVo by surprise (they didn't know WD was going to increase the size). TiVo rushed to tack the support onto what they thought was an already finished update, and held off advertising they added it, until they were sure it didn't have issues/bugs.

    It seemed to me that increasing the supported external size, would naturally increase the supported internal size. However, the tools/utilities available were, and still are, assuming that 1.26TB is the largest possible size that would work properly, thus requiring somebody to figure out how to use them in a way that would use the new capacity support. I didn't figure that part out. By the time somebody (probably by accident), did something outside the established directions to expand capacity, and had a working 2TB drive, more software releases had pushed out, with some letters skipped, due to i/j/l being too easy to confuse with each other.

    The bonus that I was focused on was the increase in limits on various things in the file system/structure. I had kept exceeding limits by recording hundreds of items per folder, in SD, on a 2TB drive, using only 1.26TB of it. This would cause a KS 57/58 GSOD boot-loop, due to the inspect/repair process trying to fix things that involved limits that had been exceeded, but not being able to. The limits could be exceeded, and the TiVo would work. But, if a KS 57 or 58 was initiated, what had to be done to "fix" it would cause loss of recordings. The repairs would be attempted, but the exceeded-limit items were locked to protect loss of recordings, thus the boot-loop, and eventual wiping of the superheader (magic something or other), and an unrecoverable drive, until some members came along, not that long ago, who could tell us how to replace that header, either from a backup, or by using a hex/disk editor. I did determine that one of the items that would contain too many entries, and trip up a KS 57/58 into boot-looping, was the actual log files (or at least one of them). It's been too long for me to remember all of it, and all my notes on it are on a hard drive in a retired XP computer.

    It is actually the brainiacs behind tools/utilities for the Roamio, that came up with ways to repair what had been considered unrecoverable for such a long time.

    I'm not sure this post is 100% accurate. Too much is from memory, rather than my actual notes I took, to be sure.
     
  12. Jul 29, 2014 #9912 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Hey, I knew it was one of the smart people around here who told me, it's just that there's enough of them to make it hard to keep straight which is which sometimes.
     
  13. Jul 31, 2014 #9913 of 10248
    master1108

    master1108 New Member

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    Nov 29, 2008
    Unitron, I followed your advice on a 1.5TB drive WD15EURS. I selected no when prompted to add the partition. Then selected the new drive, mfsadd and yes when prompted to make partition larger than 1TB. So far it appears to be working. The system information screen displays capacity of 237 hours for HD and 2047 hours for SD.
     
  14. Aug 1, 2014 #9914 of 10248
    84lion

    84lion New Member

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    Jan 22, 2009
    Just a quick note to update...I finally got a chance to unplug my wife's Tivo long enough to try the backup. I used the USB 2.0 enclosure and it worked just fine (had a minor glitch at first and had to restart winmfs, not sure what that was but ultimately no problem). Made the .tbk file just fine, and copied that to a spare drive I bought. Winmfs said both occurred successfully. It does appear that for some reason winmfs is not too keen on USB 3.0 enclosures...so save those old USB 2.0 ones! I also took the time to make a backup of my other Tivo - worked perfectly. I haven't tried the backups but I trust they're OK. It gives peace of mind to have a ready backup drive in case there would be a failure. Losing the recordings would be a shame but having the ability to get back up quickly is worth it.

    Thanks!
     
  15. Aug 1, 2014 #9915 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Just to be picky, you're supposed to select the new drive, then click on

    mfsinfo

    to make sure everything looks okay, and that you have a nice big fat Apple Free Partition at the end of the Partition Map, close that out and then click on

    mfsadd

    to do the expansion, and then click on

    mfsinfo

    again to make sure that Apple Free Partition has been swallowed up into the MFS Media partition that was just before it on the map.
     
  16. Aug 1, 2014 #9916 of 10248
    master1108

    master1108 New Member

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    Nov 29, 2008
    I did do the mfsinfo before and after mfsadd. Sorry, I did leave that detail out. The Apple Free partition was 1.2TB before mfsadd. Yes, it showed as an MFS application partition and MFS media partition after. I was inclind to run mfsinfo out of curiosity anyway. I also saved copies of it before and after.

    It looks like this can be done without the extra baby steps. Meaning click on yes when prompted. Have you found problems by not doing the baby steps? Or do you prefer to be on the cautionary side? Again just curious.
     
  17. Aug 2, 2014 #9917 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
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    semi-coastal NC
    If you mean when it finishes the copy or the restore and says there's extra room and asks if you want to expand, that's when you are not supposed to answer yes, because sometimes it works and sometimes it only appears to work and sometimes I guess it must crap out half way through and leave the drive in an unbootable state of confusion.

    I fail to see the point in more people than absolutely necessary having to learn the hard way.
     
  18. Aug 2, 2014 #9918 of 10248
    master1108

    master1108 New Member

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    Nov 29, 2008
    Yes that is what I meant, so you've answered my question.

    Thanks, I do appreciate the help.
     
  19. Aug 3, 2014 #9919 of 10248
    dstroot

    dstroot New Member

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    Mar 5, 2004
  20. Aug 3, 2014 #9920 of 10248
    nooneuknow

    nooneuknow TiVo User Since 2007

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    Feb 5, 2011
    Cox Cable...
    That's the model you want, the WD__EURX (or the older SATA2 EURS works just as well). No wdidle3.exe required, as the AV drives have the problematic "idle mode 3 timer" already set to disabled.

    You'd still want to hook it up to a PC to run the WinDLG (WD Data Lifeguard Diagnostics for Windows) program, to do an "Extended Test" followed by "Write Zeros (using full, not partial, option), followed by the "Quick Test". Viewing the SMART data after tests is a good idea, if you are familiar with what the values mean (as opposed to just going with PASS or FAIL result per test).

    That may seem backwards. But I have done extensive testing to verify this is the order to use, if you want to insure the drive is not DOA, and has no sector issues lurking anywhere on the whole drive.

    USB 2.0 is excruciatingly slow, while USB 3.0 is faster than the drive is.

    The non-quick tests take hours per test to complete, running at the full speed of the drive, which is a max of ~150 MByte/s (1200 Mbit/s).

    USB 2.0 is ~60 MBytes/s (480Mbit/s), less 20% overhead, or ~48 MByte/s.
     

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