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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Oct 23, 2013 #9701 of 10248
    bigd2008

    bigd2008 Warranty Void :)

    14
    0
    May 14, 2008
    Hey guys - I have 1TB My DVR Expander for my TivoHD that I have never used. I found that expanding the internal drive was enough recording room for me. Recently, I've been in need of an external NTFS storage drive and have avoided formatting the DVR Expander. My question is if I format it to NTFS and ever decide to use it as an External Tivo drive, am I able to do so? Will my TivoHD take care of formatting, etc? Or is it toast after formatted NTFS?
     
  2. Oct 23, 2013 #9702 of 10248
    ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay

    6,739
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    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    Tivo does not use NTFS, that is a windows environment mostly.
     
  3. Oct 23, 2013 #9703 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    If it's the actual "made to be used with a TiVo" WD eSATA external (where the drive inside is on the short list of bare drive model numbers other than which everything newer than the original S3 won't accept), then I seem to recall reading that it comes unformatted and the TiVo slaps its version of the Apple Partition Map on it, so it would probably just overwrite the MBR used in the IBM/MS world without ever seeing it.

    Of course you could hook it to a PC and boot with something like the MFS Live cd v1.4 or the UBCD and use

    dd

    or

    dd_rescue

    to copy from

    /dev/zero

    to the first few thousand bytes of the drive and it'll look blank to TiVos and Macs and PCs and everything else that's not a specific data recovery program.
     
  4. Oct 23, 2013 #9704 of 10248
    bigd2008

    bigd2008 Warranty Void :)

    14
    0
    May 14, 2008
    A windows environment is where I want to repurpose this drive, but my question was more about if can I revert back should I ever decide to.
     
  5. Oct 23, 2013 #9705 of 10248
    bigd2008

    bigd2008 Warranty Void :)

    14
    0
    May 14, 2008
    Thanks for the info. It is a TiVo certified drive made for specifically for the TiVoHD and Series3. I've had this thing since I got the DVR, but never opened the box until about two months ago. I seem to remember connecting it to a Linux machine and fdisk -l showed several partitions. Other than doing that, I haven't used the drive.

    I would probably never revert back, but I'd at least like to know I could if I wanted to. I wonder if anyone has actually done this?
     
  6. Oct 23, 2013 #9706 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    If it had FAT32 or NT partitions, those would show up with

    fdisk -l

    as well as the partitions on the PC's actual drive, which may be what you saw.

    pdisk -l

    if that command were available to you, would show Apple Partition Map partitions such as are found on TiVo drives.

    The MFS Live cd v1.4, the .iso for which that you can use to burn your own copy is available for free at mfslive.org, has the

    pdisk

    command and some other useful stuff, like the aforementioned

    dd

    and

    dd_rescue

    As long as your PC has an eSATA port I don't see why you can't use it as an NT drive now, and zero out the MBR and hook it to a Tivo later.
     
  7. Nov 5, 2013 #9707 of 10248
    keysman

    keysman New Member

    26
    0
    Jul 18, 2002
    Saacramento, CA
    Hello Community!

    Is the information in the first post of this thread still accurate?

    I have a Series 3, OLED, thermometer or whatever you wish to call it model TiVo. It's a TCD648250B. The hard drive has died, it won't spin up so I can't create a backup of the system. I want to replace the internal drive with a new one. I'm also thinking about buying a new Roamio after the holidays.

    Can I purchase a 2Tb drive now, install it in my S3 and then move it to the Roamio later? I have no plans to retain anything that's on the S3 drive when moving it to the Roamio. In other words, I know I'll loose all the data and recordings on the drive when I move it to the Roamio.

    The first post in this thread states that the max size for 1 internal drive in an S3 is 1.35TB. Is that still accurate. I haven't upgraded a TiVo drive since my old Phillips HDR112. I'm thinking about buying a 2TB drive with the idea of moving it to the Roamio Plus. I really don't mind loosing the additional space after formatting the drive for the S3. The S3 is only temporary at this point. Are there newer tools to configure a larger capacity drive for the S3? Would a 1TB drive purchase make the process of getting the S3 back up and running easier?

    Finally, is there a recommended drive model that will work in both the S3 and Romaio or again would it just be easier for me if I purcahsed a 1TB drive for the S3 and deal with a Roamio upgrade later.

    Thanks.
     
  8. Nov 5, 2013 #9708 of 10248
    A J Ricaud

    A J Ricaud New Member

    1,143
    0
    Jun 25, 2002
    Hacienda...
    You can use a max. 2TB drive in your original S3 by using WINMFS. I just did that myself and it is working fine. When you move it to the Roamio everything is erased and starts from scratch. I believe that you can get an image for your S3 by doing a search in this or the hard drive forum for S3s.
     
  9. Nov 5, 2013 #9709 of 10248
    ThreeSoFar

    ThreeSoFar FourNow...WaitFive

    5,419
    0
    May 24, 2002
    Baltimore
    You might consider the 1TB drive and a 3TB later for your Roamio, especially if your S3 has lifetime--it'll have better resale value with a working drive.

    And if the S3 does not have lifetime, you can get a 3TB drive now and <i>I THINK</i> it will work, it just will not use all the space. Then later you get 460 hours HD in your Roamio vs. the 350 or whatever. Also, for the Roamio, you definitely want lifetime. It more than pays for itself especially when you consider the resale value down the road.
     
  10. Nov 5, 2013 #9710 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    First pull the drive you have now and hook it to a PC and see if it shows up in BIOS, and then run the manufacturer's long test on it.

    If it's the original 250 GB WD, it probably is bad to a greater or lesser extent, but let's be sure that the drive and only the drive is the problem.

    And, as I indicated in the image thread, check the power supply caps while you've got it open.

    As for a new drive, find an under $100 dollar deal on a WD20EURS somewhere and use WinMFS to expand into all of it, but do the expansion as a separate step from any copying or restoring after turning down the post-copy or post-restore offer to expand.

    When the time comes you should be able to slip it into a Series 5 and have it write its own image right to it (unlike the previous S4s, S3s, S2s, and S1s), overwriting everything on it, but by that time you'll probably want to leave the 2TB in the S3 and get a 3 or maybe 4 TB drive for the S5, since they can use bigger than 2TB drives, and 3TBs will probably be as cheap down the road as 2TB drives are now (and 2TB drives will probably be harder to find then also)

    Also, if that S3 is lifetimed, you'll need a drive in it to sell it, and apparently that ain't gonna be the original 250.
     
  11. Nov 5, 2013 #9711 of 10248
    keysman

    keysman New Member

    26
    0
    Jul 18, 2002
    Saacramento, CA
    Thanks again Unitron for your very detailed response. Thanks to everyone else for your responses as well.

    I pulled the drive from the TiVo already, connected it to my PC with the WD DOS diagnostic CD. BIOS doesn't see the drive, so of course the CD doesn't see it either. Before it went down for the count I heard the drive making the dreaded clicking sound.
     
  12. Nov 6, 2013 #9712 of 10248
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,081
    2
    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    I'm not sure the S3 can use a 3TB drive at all, even if you limit the formatted portion to 2.2TB.
     
  13. Nov 6, 2013 #9713 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Someone around here who knows enough to know what they're talking about mentioned the other day that even if you limit the partitioned space to 2TB or under an S3 will just refuse to boot if the drive's bigger than 2TB--he had tried a 2.5

    If I had a PC that could use anything bigger than a 2 I'd get a 3 and use

    hdparm

    and switches I won't mention publicly to set it to report an LBA number = or < what a 2 reports and see if they could be fooled that way.
     
  14. Nov 7, 2013 #9714 of 10248
    keysman

    keysman New Member

    26
    0
    Jul 18, 2002
    Saacramento, CA
    I have a new Seagate 1.5TB 7200.11 drive sitting on my shelf. I know it's not an ideal drive and I know there were firmware issues with that drive but could I use it in the TiVo? It's a ST310500341AS. It has the CC1H firmware on it so I think it's good on that front. I know it will run hotter and louder but it's just sitting on a shelf looking for a home.
     
  15. Nov 7, 2013 #9715 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Google turns up almost no hits for that model number, it seems to be an Asian and Australian market only model.

    But you could probably use it in an S3, just be sure you've got plenty of airflow into the TiVo chassis, maybe put some taller rubber feet on the bottom to create more airspace underneath.
     
  16. Nov 8, 2013 #9716 of 10248
    ggieseke

    ggieseke Active Member

    4,031
    12
    May 30, 2008
    The "AS" drives are pretty rare. They were specifically rated for RAID systems and right on the edge of enterprise class drives. They also cost about 30% more.

    I have three of the 2TB version in my PC and I love them. They're quiet and don't seem to run any hotter than the WD Green drives next to them.
     
  17. Nov 8, 2013 #9717 of 10248
    keysman

    keysman New Member

    26
    0
    Jul 18, 2002
    Saacramento, CA
    I fat fingered that, it's an ST31500341AS.
     
  18. Nov 8, 2013 #9718 of 10248
    keysman

    keysman New Member

    26
    0
    Jul 18, 2002
    Saacramento, CA
    I was able to get my original TiVo drive running long enough to make a truncated backup with WinMFS. Yeah! :)

    If I'm able to get the drive spinning again and keep it spinning long enough to back up the whole thing, can I do that with the MFS Live CD, backup the drive and expand it all in one step using this command?

    backup -qTao - /dev/sda | restore -s 128 -r 4 -xzpi - /dev/sdb

    or whatever my drive assignments are.

    Will I get to a full 1.5TB using that method.
     
  19. Nov 9, 2013 #9719 of 10248
    ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay

    6,739
    9
    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    WinMFS will work to backup, restore and expand. No excess typing needed either.
     
  20. Nov 9, 2013 #9720 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,389
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Apparently the original 250GB WD drives in 648s are dropping like flies right about now.

    I would suggest

    backup -Tao - /dev/sda | restore -s xxx -pi - /dev/sdb

    where xxx is the swap size you want to use.

    I think if you don't include the

    -s

    switch (or option*), then it'll just go ahead and make it 128(MB) like the source drive, but using it and specifying 128 won't hurt anything--just don't go lower.

    [*a

    -

    (a hyphen) in these circumstances, following a command (like

    backup

    which is a command to run the backup program), and which is followed immediately by another character, usually a letter, denotes that the next thing to follow is an option that you've decided to invoke.]


    You notice I left the

    -q

    out of the first part and the

    -xz

    out of the second.

    Instead of the

    -v

    for verbose that lots of Linux/Unix command line utilities seem to use,

    verbose is the default, and

    -q

    is used to override that and achieve "quiet" mode.

    Me, I want to see what's going on as I sit there nervously fearing disaster.

    The

    Ta

    part is the

    -T

    and the

    -a

    switches invoked together and since they don't need to be followed by a value, like swap size, they can share that hyphen.

    (I forget exactly what T and a stand for, but the combination make sure everything gets copied, including all recordings and settings)

    Also sharing that hyphen is the

    o

    which stands for "output" and the thing that follows it is supposed to be where the output of the backup command is supposed to go.

    In this case the hyphen that follows the "o" indicates that it's supposed to go to something called "stdout" or something like that, which is short for standard output, I think, and is sort of a holding place in memory.

    One the other side of the thing

    |

    that's going to "pipe" backup's output out of sdtout to the restore command by way of STDIN you'll see I left off

    -xz

    or zx or whatever.

    -x

    is the "expand after you finish copying option for restore, and I've seen it fail too many times.

    Do the copy, check the target with

    pdisk -l /dev/sdb

    and see if you don't have an Apple Partition Map with a big Apple Free partition at the end (that's what the APM labels an unpartitioned space--it turns it into a partition that can't be used for anything until it gets turned into some other kind of partition)

    Then

    mfsinfo /dev/sdb

    to make sure it reports everything's okey-dokey with the target drive.

    Then mfsadd /dev/sdb will do the actual expansion.

    -z

    "zeroes out" the alternate boot partitions, but I don't see what that accomplishes and if you don't include it, it can't screw anything up.

    -p

    causes restore to use the "optimized" partition layout that they introduced on the S2s.

    Always use it with an S2 or S3, do not use it with an S1, and doing it wrong won't come back to bite you months later, because it'll be the way it's supposed to be.

    and


    -i

    followed by a space and a hyphen tells restore to use STDIN as its input--if it had been -i space some file name or something else, it would use that instead.

    -r

    is no longer considered necessary, and if you don't fully understand why it came into being in the first place you'll probably have as much chance of choosing the wrong value to follow as the right one.

    The reason the original, which I assume you copied from somewhere, didn't go

    -srxzpi

    is that

    -s

    needs a value to follow it before anything else comes along so that it's known that that value is intended to be used with -s, and the same thing for

    -r

    but x, z, and p are just "use this option", as opposed to "don't use it because you haven't been specifically told to use it", and

    -i

    is at the end of that string so a space and a hyphen following tell the command what to do with

    -i

    which you should have figured out by now means "input", just like "o", on the other side of the pipe, meant output.

    All that said, it would be easier to use WinMFS to do it, provided you turn down its offer to expand and then do the expansion as a separate step using WinMFS's mfsadd command.

    So why all the detail for a method I'm recommending you not bother with?

    So that some future searcher will learn the easy way what I learned the hard way.
     

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