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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. richsadams

    richsadams New Member

    Jan 4, 2003
    The answer is almost a certain yes, you will lose all of the recordings made since you connected your expansion drive. As mentioned previously all external drives are married to the internal drive when they are connected. TiVo recognizes external drives by their model number and each time a new drive is connected the drive is formatted or re-formatted and all data lost. That said, it's remotely possible that if you cloned the exact same drive (brand, model, size, etc.) TiVo might accept it as the original. AFAIK, no one has ever tried that.

    The question of replacing an existing eSATA drive with a larger eSATA drive has come up before (yours truly asked about it several months ago on the MFSLive Forum). There is currently no way to save any of the recordings made since the expansion drive was installed due to the drive recognition factor. That may or may not be overcome one day, but at present, it's not possible.

    If it's an external enclosure problem and not the actual drive my recommendation would be to put your existing drive into the new enclosure (if you can R&R the drives w/o voiding the warranty).

    So if you can open your existing case, remove your drive and put it into the case you'll receive that should solve your dilemma. Another option would be to buy the recommended Antec MX-1 external enclosure and install your existing eSATA drive.

    Bottom line is that external enclosures are transparent to TiVo; it's the actual drive that's important.

    Remember, when removing and replacing your eSATA drive make sure you follow the correct order:

    Removing the eSATA Drive

    1. Unplug TiVo
    2. Turn off/unplug the eSATA drive
    3. Disconnect the eSATA cable from TiVo

    Installing or re-installing the eSATA Drive

    1. Connect the eSATA cable to the eSATA drive and TiVo
    2. Plug in/turn on the eSATA drive
    3. Plug TiVo in
  2. brewman

    brewman Member

    Jun 28, 2003
    Unfortunately I didn't record the numbers on the drive itself. I will say it was an OEM drive (not retail).
  3. jlib

    jlib Lean Forward

    Nov 21, 2002
    There is no retail boxed version of that WD10EVCS drive.
  4. bmgoodman

    bmgoodman Member

    Dec 20, 2000
    Is anyone concerned about how well these bare drives are packed for shipping? The retail boxes seem well engineered to prevent damage, but the last bare drive I got from Newegg had a small amount of bubble wrap and some styrofoam peanuts that didn't instill confidence.
  5. richsadams

    richsadams New Member

    Jan 4, 2003
    I've purchased drives from newegg and they've all been fine. But I agree, the bubble wrap/peanuts method is less than desirable. Other vendors take the time to put them in clamshells at least, but newegg's packers seem to be in a pretty big hurry. Again, they all worked or are working, so I guess there's nothing to be concerned with unless you have Hulk Hogan as your UPS driver. ;)
  6. drhankz

    drhankz New Member

    Jan 14, 2008
    Salem NH
    Drives will take a very large "G" load when they are NOT RUNNING :up:

    Therefore bubble wrap is even better than hard plastic.
  7. richsadams

    richsadams New Member

    Jan 4, 2003
    True enough. As long as the heads are parked it shouldn't be a problem.
  8. logicman1

    logicman1 New Member

    Jan 10, 2008
    Carmel, NY
    Sounds like Newegg does a better job than ComputerHQ. The only protection was a cardboard "frame" that was supposed to hold the drive centered in the box. No bubble wrap, peanuts, etc. When I opened the box the drive had slipped out of the frame and was free to bounce around. It did not give me the warm fuzzies but it's been running OK since January.
  9. JayBird

    JayBird New Member

    Jan 25, 2003
    Gilbert, AZ
    I've bought several hard drives from NewEgg over the years, which have always come wrapped in bubble wrap, but otherwise bouncing around loose in the box. I've had one be DOA, and a couple of others fail prematurely. My conclusion is to not buy drives from NewEgg anymore due to their poor packaging (but I do still buy other parts and stuff from NewEgg that come in retail packaging when they have the lowest price - I have no other issues with NewEgg as a vendor).

    At this point I pretty much stick with buying my hard drives from buy.com. I have always found their packaging to be much better than the bubble wrap approach, and I don't think I've never had a drive fail that I bought from buy.com.

    I also buy almost exclusively Seagate hard drives. I've seen every other brand of hard drive out there fail in one way or another, but in the past 15 years I have yet to see a Seagate drive fail (other than Seagate notebook drives, but that's another story). However, I'm getting tired of waiting for the 1TB DB35.4 drives to ship so that I can upgrade my TiVo HD to 2 TB (1 TB internal + 1 TB external). The latest deal from buy.com on the 1 TB WD drives is very tempting, even though I'm not much of a fan of WD drives.

    And, if you think your UPS/FedEx/DHL/etc. driver is hard on your packages, you've never been to a sorting facility and seen what really happens to your packages. I spent a week at a sorting facility once, and the way that packages are thrown onto conveyors, dropped on the floor, thrown into trucks, and just generally handled without care is appaulling. It's really quite amazing that more merchandise isn't completely destroyed in transit. When you know what really happens to your packages, you realize very quickly that NewEgg's packaging is not the way to go. Or at least that's my personal opinion. YMMV.
  10. orangeboy

    orangeboy yes, I AM orangeboy!

    Apr 19, 2004
    East Moline, IL
    I had a Bright House tech out to see about some missing channels. Going through the motions, the tech had asked to see the cable cards so he could get the serial number from them. I unplugged the tivo (S3), then the eSATA cable, but never power cycled the external drive (Western Digital My DVR Expander) :(. It was only after I plugged the eSATA cable back in and then the power cable to the tivo did I think about what I read in the dvr expander documents about the process for temporarily removing the drive. At 2:00/3:00 this morning, the tivo was hung, with no response to the remote (except for finally rebooting due to much button mashing). I don't know if the two are related (no power cycle of HDD, and tivo hang), but I thought I'd mention it.
  11. rmstone

    rmstone New Member

    Oct 13, 2007
    I'm stuck, and need assistance.

    I have a TivoHD, and bought a Seagate 750Gb ST3750840SCE, and the antec mx1 enclosure.

    I've opened up my THD, but HOW am i supposed to connect both Tivo Drives (new external and existing internal) to my PC??

    My PC is a fairly crappy 2 year old HP with Sata Drive, but there are not any extra power cables, and I have NO extra sata cables. Am i going to have to slave one of these drives? how do I have all three hard drives connected at once?

    "Turn off your computer and connect your internal SATA drive and the new external SATA drive. You can open your computer and connect both with SATA cables, or you can connect them both externally using a pair of SATA->USB adapters. If you are connecting a retail eSATA drive to the SATA port on your PC, you will also need a SATA -> eSATA cable such as the SIIG CB-SA0311-S1 (Buy.com, TheNerds.net, or ProVantage.com) or the PPA Int'l 3848 (Newegg.com)."

    To me this seems vague, but so many of you have done this successfully, what am I missing?
  12. drhankz

    drhankz New Member

    Jan 14, 2008
    Salem NH
    Today - I'm upgrading from the 160GB standard
    Internal HD on the TiVo HD to a 1 TB Internal.

    I have only one recording on the Internal HD.
    I'm using USB to SATA adapters on my PC
    for the process.

    Any IDEA how long the MFCopy will take.

    Just curious.
  13. DaveDFW

    DaveDFW Member

    Jan 25, 2005
    Richardson, TX
    I just wanted to add another data point for the FreeAgent Pro. I added the 1tb FAP, which seemed to work fine for a while, But in just one evening's viewing time, my S3 unexpectedly rebooted twice. That had never happened before, it was obviously the FreeAgent Pro or the esata cable, since those were the only new items.

    After reading horror stories on the net about the FreeAgent's poor esata interface, I decided it just wasn't worth messing with any longer. Back to Fry's it went.

    I replaced it with an Antec MX-1 and an OEM 7200.11 1tb, with which I have had no further reboots.

    Just letting everyone know that the FreeAgents are not 100% reliable with the Tivos yet.

    It's really too bad, because I thought the whole device was very stylish--I almost wanted to put it out where it could be seen. :)

  14. bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

    Jan 9, 2003
    DC Metro Area
    With SATA, there is no such thing as master/slave. If there are no SATA or power connections for you to use inside the computer, then you may need to use an external SATA->USB adapter.

    Since you have to remove the internal drive anyway, you may opt to simply replace/upgrade the internal drive. If you just want to replace the internal drive, and don't need to backup the existing recordings, then there is no need to have multiple drives connected at once.

    I've heard people state ~30 minutes and other people report 6 hours (or more). I suspect it depends on the USB adapter and the USB interface in the computer.

    If you want to backup and restore only your software and settings (season passes, wishlists, etc), and not the previous recordings, it should only take a few minutes. For that, you would just do backup and restore, not mfscopy.
  15. drhankz

    drhankz New Member

    Jan 14, 2008
    Salem NH
    I took my ORIGINAL TiVo HD 160 GB hard drive out.

    I backed it up on my PC - just in case.

    I used Mfscopy to copy everything from the 160 GB
    drive to my NEW 1 TB Drive. I did not use Mfsupersize.

    I did not use Mfsadd after mfscopy because the ending
    message said it had already been done.

    I installed the new 1 TB drive in the internal TiVo HD
    box. The System boots fine - everything is there even
    the single recorded program.

    My PROBLEM is when I go to System Info - it is showing
    only 20 hours of recording capacity.

    I'm running TiVo 9.2a-01-2-652

    What did I do WRONG?
  16. lrhorer

    lrhorer New Member

    Aug 31, 2003
    You didn't expand the drive. Put it back in your PC and you can do it now.
  17. bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

    Jan 9, 2003
    DC Metro Area
    Sounds like it did not do mfsadd after all. :(

    You need to reconnect just the new 1TB drive and run mfsadd.

    Edit: I will remove the "This step is unnecessary if WinMFS already asked you to expand the new drive after the Mfscopy or Restore" from the FAQ because it sounds like WinMFS doesn't automatically expand after a Mfscopy, despite what it says. WinMFS does expand automatically after a Restore.
  18. drhankz

    drhankz New Member

    Jan 14, 2008
    Salem NH
    After Mfscopy it said it had already DONE IT.

    I have since taken the drive out and manually
    Done the Mfsadd and Mfssupersize

    It now boots up and recognizes the 1 TB Drive Size.

    I guess the first message after Mfscopy was WRONG.
    Oh Well [GRIN] it is working now.

  19. osoc2

    osoc2 New Member

    Jul 25, 2003
    Thanks brewman for verifying the WD10EVCS works as an internal S3 drive! The day you ordered it happened to be the day I was thinking about doing so, but didn't want to be the one to find out it had soft reboot issues.

    I just got mine in today and now also have 144 HD hours with no soft reboot problem. It is very quiet, I can barely hear it writing when my ear is less than a foot away and the rest of the house is silent. I think I will be very happy with this upgrade.

    The full model number of my drive is WD10EVCS-63ZLB0
    (I think the last digit is zero, but it could be an oh)
  20. richsadams

    richsadams New Member

    Jan 4, 2003
    Thanks much for posting the full drive model number. :up:

    Two confirmations that the new WD 1TB AV GP drive will work as an internal upgrade for TiVo Series3's (and presumably for TiVo HD's) is great news indeed!

    Noted that Buy.com has it for $261.99 w/free shipping. Not a screamin' deal, but not too bad either.

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