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Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.
Thanks Unitron! I got one of these just as a spare...or in case I buy another Premiere.
wdidle3 did the job, at least for a 500gb drive. This is for a spare one that won't be used much, so I don't need to test the 1tb drive. Thanks.
THANK YOU!!! I've been waiting for that price point with free shipping on the menu and no sales tax. I bought the max of 5.
As much as I don't believe a need for an AV drive (retail/online stores and even WD often simply advertise them as for use in "video surveillance equipment"), and know that TiVo uses neither the standard ATA Streaming feature, nor the WD "Silkstream" feature (backwards compatible with standard streaming), there's no sure way to know that it will stay that way, and I like a 3 year warranty.
I've seen tons of advice, to others around the forums, which I find misleading. I'm sure the intentions were good, but I'd like to point out, after much research, that an AV drive only uses different error handling methods if using the streaming features. Think about it. TiVos have databases, and partitions that could easily become corrupted if handled with the streaming error-handling that the AV portions use. Even in the primary target market, for security/surveillance, there are areas where an AV/streaming error-handling method would lead to corruption in very important areas of the drive data. This is why you actually CAN safely use an AV drive in a computer to store databases/spreadsheets/etc. Also, think about the very important data that must be kept on security equipment, other than video, such as an accurate time/date-stamp/etc. That would not be handled through the streaming set, but overlaid on top of the AV portion that is. So far, the only thing that I can come up with that may help in a TiVo, not found in non-AV drives is PWL (Pre-emptive wear leveling). These days, all drives are made to run 24/7, regardless of if they will. I'd like to see PWL added to non-AV drives.
Believe it or not, I have a stack of Maxtor PATA drives from the days when 120GB was the biggest you could get, which have ATA streaming built into them. They were not sold as AV drives, but as high performance multimedia drives, to get the best multimedia experience possible on your PC, along with the most storage. It wasn't long before those drives got dropped from the product lines. They had no PWL, no alleged 24/7 rating. I find it amusing and oxymoronic to call a 24/7 rated AV drive "green", unless it's expected to be used to non-24/7 scenarios. I do recognize the value of lower RPMs, variable RPMs, and head parking/spindle spin-down. I do like Seagate's 7200RPM Barracuda SATA 3 drives, that state "Green when they need to be". I haven't used one in a TiVo, though. It seems like a waste of a high performance, yet green capable drive, that I could put in my new tower.
I have found it to be very difficult to convince people that most of these AV features are command level behaviors, not drive level.
Is anybody aware of any references that aver that the TiVo boxes never use any of these commands when streaming?
Thanks Unitron, got one for the shelf....now perhaps they'll drop some-more.
Just a heads up for anyone ordering these...The 'code' only works once; so if you want more than one....order them at the same time.
Edit: Just my luck....The drive seems to work (spin-up) in a dock on a Win 7 Machine.. But none of WD tests will pass. SMART initially had one parameter (re-allocate Sector Count) that was higher than threshold. After multiple tests, and last ditch one of letting Windows format it, hopefully to make it fail, it now shows another issue in SMART of a RAW Read Error Rate failure, but the drive keep chugging like it has no issues..... I wrote zeros to it successfully (????). .....Got it boxed-up and ready to return to the egg... unfortunately; Got a bad feeling about my outcome.
You are not alone. The ONLY reason I suspect that TiVo keeps treating AV as regular data is how many people would end up with "bricked" TiVo units if the drives don't support streaming extensions. Even though TiVo is NOT obligated to provide support for end-user upgraded TiVos, using non-AV drives, it still would flood the support lines with calls, anyway. I can no longer recommend non-AV drives for Premieres, as I have this feeling that TiVo could, at any time, send out an update that requires the streaming extensions, thus "bricking" such units. I think DVR_DUDE knows something the rest of us don't. It's just a suspicion, though. Until I know that the hardware doesn't support the ATA streaming, or WD silkstream (backwards compatible), it's always a possible scenario.
Just dig into "ATA streaming" and "WD silkstream", beyond the advertising, and the "specifications" disguised as advertising, and it will all make sense.
richsadams was notorious for saying this. As of the past couple years, he's taken a lot of sabbaticals from the forums, as he doesn't seem to like getting in battles with others. I respect him for that. However, he dismissed my honest attempts to get the "kickstart FAQ" sticky changed to reflect my units having a different behavior. He admitted that he had a Premiere XL that he based his sticky on. I have four non-XL Premieres, which all behaved differently. The lights on the front of the units apparently behaved differently, based on the revision of the board, firmware, and software. I've seen some people say the last update changed how their units behaved. I do recognize richsadams as a very valuable resource to these forums, who may have had TiVo models going way back to possibly the first generation. He's always tried to help anybody he could. But, he's not somebody who likes to experiment on his family TiVos. He's more of the "let the others try it and see how it works over time" type. But, he has tried to help many newbies on here, as best he could. I just don't see him as the type to buy a TiVo, strip off the internal shields, research the chipsets, and report on the facts of that. There are other forums that are more underground/hacking related, which have posts that say it may even be possible for a Premiere to have it's BIOS (PROM) flashed by TiVo, remotely, but never proven. It was found that each PROM had the TSN programmed into it. AFAIK, nobody went any further past that discovery.
Since this thread is in the "Series 3" area, I SOMEWHAT feel it's safe to say that no S3/HD will ever require the streaming extensions to be supported by the hard drive. That's unless TiVo deliberately sends out an update, which would also require the hardware to support it.
Looks like I got one from the same batch as ccrider2. Thanks to advice I received on this thread, I always run the WD Diagnostic Extended Test on a new drive. Up to this point I haven't had an issue. Until this last purchase from Newegg! It failed the extended test with "too many sector errors detected" so I have to get it replaced.
Question: Should I RMA it with Newegg or RMA it with WD?
Thanks for your input.
OK, this has me worried then. Does anyone have a link to an ISO of a bootable CD with the right WD diagnostic program for this drive?
Newegg RMA it. Will get a new replacement. WD RMA will probably get remanufactured drive.
WD website has both Windows and DOS version of their diagnostic. It will be the latest version that will support your drive.
That does not help me.
I have no Windows or DOS PC.
What I want is a bootable CD that works in an old Dell PC (Pentium III maybe) that has no OS on it at all.
Ultimate Boot CD
And btw, when will these companies start producing a Linux diagnostic program?
But the WD Diag .exe file is not on this CD.
The crappy PC has only the new SATA drive attached and a floppy and a single CD drive from which I can boot.
But I have no OS that can write to the floppy.
Can the UBCD be removed once the DOS on it is running? So I can load a burn CD with the .exe I want on it and run it?
Sorry, didn't know your specifics. Since you mentioned Linux. Can I assume you are running that on a PC or are you using a MAC with some flavor of OSX. You could create a DOS USB key or a DOS floppy and easily add the program on it. It would be a little more difficult to create a DOS iso and add the program to it. Would any other options mentioned other than and iso work for you.
As mentioned earlier the ultimate boot CD is an option. You could edit the iso before you burn it and update the WD diagnostic program on it.
Here is the info on customizing the Ultimate Boot CD http://www.ultimatebootcd.com/customize.html
The customize .iso may well do it for me. I'd always figured that was possible but never figured out how.
It's a weird setup I have, I know. I do have MacBooks and a Mac Mini, but I'd always used my old crappy Dell Pentium III system for TiVo upgrades.
It has CD and floppy drive, but no OS--so by now I have no OS anymore that can write floppies. It doesn't have Linux unless I boot a Linux CD. And I don't even think it has USB, not really sure.
Many many times I've almost bought a newer used Dell with SATA and USB on board just to have for TiVo upgrades. I figured I should get rid of my old crappy Dells....their husks, really. Not much to them.
But now I have this new WD drive that I'd like to test. I've mostly gotten lucky not bothering with the long test all these years. Of the dozens of TiVos I've done over the years (for us and friends/family), only a couple had drive issues. At first I used Samsung drives, switched to WD with the Premieres.
I'll ask around at work if anyone has an old PC they want to get rid of that's less old than my crap.
Quoting my own post here....but OK, how do I customize an .iso image on a Mac OSX? That link seems to be all C:\ crap (windows).
At the bottom it shows you where the equivalent Linux commands reside. They may or may not work with OSX. You essentially follow the Windows instructions using the OSX equivalent commands. The files on the iso is just data to OSX. It might not recognize the data but it will manipulate it. All that C:\ crap is essentially the equivalent to a folder in OSX or Linux.