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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Nov 29, 2012 #9181 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    semi-coastal NC
    It depends.

    The stock 160GB S3 HD drive comes with 2 MFS pairs, partitions 10 and 11, and partitions 12 and 13.

    Using the MFS Live cd or WinMFS to upgrade to a bigger drive results in a third MFS pair being added to fill up the extra space, and that brings you up to 15 partitions, which means you can add one more using the jmfs cd v1.04.

    The catch is that when the 3rd MFS pair is added, that has to use up all of the space on the upgrade drive. If not, then even a small amount of leftover space will, because of the way the Apple Partition Map scheme works, be labeled an Apple Free Partition (that's right, unpartitioned space is a partition--now you know what Apple meant by "think different").

    When that happens the Apple Free partition becomes partition 16, and that's the limit per single TiVo drive. The first thing jmfs does is "Xerox" the source drive to the target drive. That means it copies the Apple Free partition as well. Then when jmfs goes to expand by adding a single MFS media partition, that partition is the 17th one on the drive. TiVo no like that. TiVo throw up.

    In my experience so far, the otherwise excellent MFS Live cd leaves a little space when it adds the 3rd MFS pair, and there doesn't seem to be a way to juggle anything to prevent that. WinMFS, on the other hand, will use all of the available space.

    So use WinMFS's mfsinfo to get the partition map and copy and paste it here so we know what we're dealing with.

    Alternately, use the MFS Live cd and

    pdisk -l /dev/sd"x"


    (where "x" is a or b or whatever is necessary to refer to the TiVo drive and not your Windows drive or DVD or whatever)

    and redirect the output to a text file that you can paste here.

    Refresh my memory, do you have a TCD652160?
     
  2. Nov 29, 2012 #9182 of 10248
    ac3dd

    ac3dd New Member

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    Mar 2, 2002
    No, I have the TCD648250B.

    The drive in there is a 500GB purchased in Feb. 2007 from Weaknees with the TiVo software preinstalled. So it has whatever partitioning scheme Weaknees was using back then.

    I'm thinking of buying a couple capacitors to have on hand just in case I see the capacitors are bad when I open it up. But what type of equipment is needed to remove the old capacitors safely and install the new ones?

    EDIT: It looks like I'll need a soldering iron. I've never used one before, so I'm not going to try it for the first time on an expensive device like TiVo. I'll have to learn that another day. If the caps are bad I'll just need to buy a new power supply.
     
  3. Nov 29, 2012 #9183 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Okay, that kind of changes things if you want to put a 2TB drive in there.

    jmfs was designed to work with the Premiere and for some reason will work with the later S3s, the HD and HD XL, as well, but I haven't seen any reports of success using it with the original S3, which is what you have.


    And since I don't and didn't work there or ever buy a drive from them, I have no idea what that partition map is, so I still need for you to get the info from your drive and post it here.

    Since Weaknees apparently uses their own voodoo instead of what we have access to, you might only have the original 13 partition-2 MFS pairs arrangement, only with the MFS partitions bigger than on the original 250GB drive (what happened to yours, by the way?)

    If this is so, you may be able to use WinMFS to copy the 500GB Weaknees drive to the 2TB and then expand by letting WinMFS install a 3rd MFS pair.

    Maybe you can be our test subject.


    You need a #10 Torx bit to remove the screws that hold the power supply down to the standoffs on the chassis, and a slightly smaller #8 or #9 Torx bit to remove the little screw that goes in from the outside to secure the top of the AC input jack to the back of the chassis.

    Then you need a somewhat high wattage soldering iron, or better yet a soldering gun, to unsolder the old caps and solder in the new ones.

    It wouldn't hurt to have something additional to remove the solder after melting it when taking out the old caps.

    There are "solder suckers" which have a spring loaded piston which creates a vacuum and sucks the molten solder up into its cylinder, there are things that look like soldering irons with a squeeze bulb added that are actually de-soldering irons--Radio Shack has one that's not too bad, and you might be able to get by with just it, since you can use it to melt solder when installing the new capacitors as well--and there are rolls of solder wick, which is basically very small copper wires woven together (similar to the shield on shielded cables) that will absorb molten solder by capillary action, but you want to avoid Radio Shack's version of that. They used to have some that wasn't too horrible, but they replaced it with absolute junk.


    I assume you've already educated yourself on the need to use low-ESR caps which are also rated for 105 degrees celsius/centigrade, have the same uF (microFarad) rating as what they're replacing, and the same voltage rating or the next higher one?
     
  4. Nov 29, 2012 #9184 of 10248
  5. Nov 29, 2012 #9185 of 10248
    ac3dd

    ac3dd New Member

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    Mar 2, 2002
    The drive I want to install is 1.5TB. I can live with only using 1TB of it if it's too much trouble to get 1.35 or more.
     
  6. Nov 29, 2012 #9186 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Still need to see that partition map before I can advise you further.
     
  7. Nov 29, 2012 #9187 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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  8. Dec 2, 2012 #9188 of 10248
    Stylin

    Stylin Stylish Jane Sixpack

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    Dec 31, 2004
    NYC
  9. Dec 2, 2012 #9189 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    For a TiVo, the WD20EURS makes more sense because it runs at a lower RPM and cooler. The TiVo can't take advantage of the extra RPM, and the Caviar Blacks, although very nice drives, get kind of toasty.

    That is (or was) a good price for a drive with that performance and a 5 year warranty.

    I just clicked on that link and the price is now $120.

    The WD20EURS is also specifically designed to be an A/V drive, it worries less about being completely error free and more about capturing everything sent to it. With video, better to have one byte wrong than to miss several or more because it's tied up doing error correction on that first byte.

    For situations like saving spreadsheets and databases and the great American novel you're working on, the Black is better because it and the PC can negotiate how fast the data are sent to it, and it can spend more time making sure it has every byte right.

    So stick the Green in your TiVo and fill a tower case with those Blacks and back up your shows to there.
     
  10. Dec 2, 2012 #9190 of 10248
    Stylin

    Stylin Stylish Jane Sixpack

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    Thanks Unitron for clarifying. I'm glad I'm going with the right drive. For some reason I had in my mind that Caviar's were always the better drive (warranty), so feel much better purchasing one that is specifically designed dvr's. Plus, I can take comfort in the fact I've read about successful upgrades using WD20EURS.

    Now I just have to find someone to do the upgrade when the drive arrives lol. Been reading this thread and it's above my intelligence lol, not to mention I do not have access to a desktop.

    Oh, the Caviar Black WDBAAZ0020HNC ends up being $105 after using $15 off coupon code 90889. It's currently oos, but the sale is all week, so will probably come back into stock.
     
  11. Dec 2, 2012 #9191 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    The Black is a good drive, I grabbed some of the 1TB version a couple or three Black Fridays ago at Best Buy (before the flood that pumped up prices so badly), and I've got two of them (with JMicron chipset IDE/SATA adapters) in my mom's Series 2 Dual Tuner (along with extra cooling, cause the Blacks get pretty warm), and one in an S2 DT of mine (again, with extra cooling), and they're still chugging along just fine.
     
  12. Dec 4, 2012 #9192 of 10248
    ac3dd

    ac3dd New Member

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    Mar 2, 2002
    I successfully ran WDIDLE3 on the 1.5TB drive, and then MFS tools to get the partition map on the old 500GB drive, which is quoted below.

    Code:
    Partition Maps
     #:                  type name                            length base      ( size  )
      1   Apple_partition_map Apple                               63@1         (  31.5K)
      2                 Image Bootstrap 1                       4096@485364800 (   2.0M)
      3                 Image Kernel 1                          4096@485368896 (   2.0M)
      4                  Ext2 Root 1                          262144@485372992 ( 128.0M)
      5                 Image Bootstrap 2                       4096@485635136 (   2.0M)
      6                 Image Kernel 2                          4096@485639232 (   2.0M)
      7                  Ext2 Root 2                          262144@485643328 ( 128.0M)
      8                  Swap Linux swap                      260096@485905472 ( 127.0M)
      9                  Ext2 /var                            524288@486165568 ( 256.0M)
     10                   MFS MFS application region          589824@486689856 ( 288.0M)
     11                   MFS MFS media region             216747008@268617792 ( 103.4G)
     12                   MFS Second MFS application region    589824@487279680 ( 288.0M)
     13                   MFS Second MFS media region      268617728@64        ( 128.1G)
     14                   MFS New MFS Application               1024@487869504 ( 512.0K)
     15                   MFS New MFS Media                488898560@487870528 ( 233.1G)
     16            Apple_Free Extra                             4080@976769088 (   2.0M)
    One of the capacitors seems like it has a slight bulge, so a new power supply may have to be on my shopping list (I have no experience with soldering, so I'm not going to try to replace the cap alone). I'll post a pic later so you and others can give your opinion.
     
  13. Dec 4, 2012 #9193 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    What if I told you I'd pay you $100 to learn to solder?

    It's almost the same thing, cause not knowing is going to cost you at least that.

    You're going to have to take the power supply out and put it or a replacement back in no matter what you do.

    If you buy a new supply it'll cost you $150, not counting shipping, and you can send them your old supply to get $50 back, but you'll have to pay shipping to get it to them.

    You can fix the old supply, re-install it, test it with just a hard drive attached as an electrical load ("switching" supplies like the ones used nowadays in PCs and TiVos need a load connected when you apply power to them) and not have it connected to the motherboard 'til you're sure it's okay.

    If you don't succeed at repairing it, you can buy a "new" one and send the non-working old one back for the "core charge", just as you'd have done if you didn't try to fix it.

    As soldering jobs go, this is a simple one.
     
  14. Dec 4, 2012 #9194 of 10248
    ac3dd

    ac3dd New Member

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    Mar 2, 2002
    I'll just have to pay the $100 penalty for my lack of knowledge. I'm not going to risk $650 (the cost of a new Tivo with lifetime service) by putting my half-baked attempt back into the TiVo and having it fry the motherboard someday. Learning to solder will have to be done at another time and place, when the consequences of screwing up don't matter.

    However, I might try my hand at testing the existing one with a capacitor tester, if that will do any good in confirming or disproving my suspicions about that capacitor. Can it be tested properly when it's still on the board?
     
  15. Dec 4, 2012 #9195 of 10248
    ac3dd

    ac3dd New Member

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    Mar 2, 2002
    Given that I have 16 partitions including Apple_Free on the old drive, how do I resolve that so 1TB or more can be used on the 1.5TB drive?
     
  16. Dec 4, 2012 #9196 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    If it has so much as a hint of a bulge it doesn't need testing in or out of circuit, it needs to be replaced.

    Is there an electronics service shop near you?

    Just tell them to replace it and the other one in parallel with it if there is one (they'll know what that means), and it should be considerably faster and cheaper.

    There should be a number next to it on the board, like C101.

    What is it?

    If there's a glob of white stuff partially covering the number, I probably know which one it is already. You've got a TCD648250, right?
     
  17. Dec 4, 2012 #9197 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    You could try using WinMFS to mfscopy the 500 to the 1.5 and then see if it'll do mfsadd, and we'll both learn something.
     
  18. Dec 4, 2012 #9198 of 10248
    ac3dd

    ac3dd New Member

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    Mar 2, 2002
    My old cheap camera won't take well-focused pictures of small items, so the pic is not good enough to show the magnitude of the bulge. But at least I've pointed out which one the suspect is. It's the biggest of 5 capacitors beside that "black wall".

    There is some white putty-like stuff between the capacitors. There are also a few other small blobs of it on different places on the power board. Is that some kind of leakage, or was it placed there deliberately by the manufacturer?

    [​IMG]
     

    Attached Files:

  19. Dec 4, 2012 #9199 of 10248
    steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    I can tell even with it being out of focus. That capacitor is a goner.
    The white blobs are just a glue that the manufacturer put there to hold the components in place for soldering.
     
  20. Dec 4, 2012 #9200 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    That black wall is a heat sink. So is the silver one.

    That cap is C701, a 2200uF, 25V, and is a well known culprit in the 648 power supply.

    Like steve614 said, the white stuff is glue to hold stuff in place when they solder it.

    If you take it to a shop, tell them there's a small dark screw that goes in from the outside into the top of the AC jack, and to use a low-ESR, 105 degree celsius/centigrade replacement cap.
     

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