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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Nov 16, 2012 #9121 of 10248
    deafwhisperer

    deafwhisperer New Member

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    Nov 13, 2012
    Thanks for the quick response. Yes, I do have a couple of spare HDs bigger than 160GB. I have 750GB and 1TB.

    That now make sense. I didn't think about using any spare HD to start this process.

    There's two more hours left on the extended test. I'll work on this first thing in the morning.
     
  2. Nov 16, 2012 #9122 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC

    Okay, I'm assuming you're talking about running the extended test on the new drive before putting it into service?

    Have you connected the original 160GB drive to a PC and tested it with the manufacturer's diagnostics to see just how dead it is or isn't?

    We need to be sure your problem is a bad drive and not a power supply with "capacitor plague" since both are possible with that model.

    And if we can copy the 160 to the 1TB that'll save some time and work later on.


    Assuming the 160 is bad, can't be copied, and the power supply is good---

    Here's what you do to do it the way I did it on my TCD652160, or would have if I didn't have a good original 160GB drive, but did have the image files.

    First, you make sure you aren't using a GigaByte brand motherboard because of the host protected area they create on hard drives whether you want it or not (although if that's all you have there is a workaround for that).

    Then you waste a lot of time using the MFS Live cd v1.4 to restore the .bak image to a 1TB, only to always wind up with a little extra space at the end which gets turned into an Apple Free Partition, no matter how much you play around with the size of the swap partition. :)

    This is not a disparagement of the MFS Live cd. If it were a phonograph record I'd have worn it out by now using different programs and utilities off of it.

    But it won't completely fill a 1TB with no space left over for some reason.

    So, then you use WinMFS and the .tbk image file.

    Open the program while running as administrator or run it with admin privileges.

    Click on select drive and choose the 1TB.

    If it has some old DOS/Windows/PC stuff on it you'll probably have to click on "show mounted drives", although in that case it might be better to use the MFS Live cd to write zeros to the first few sectors of the drive before booting into Windows with it attached. Especially if your Windows installation is on another 1TB drive and there's any risk of choosing the wrong drive to put the TiVo image on.

    After you've selected the drive, you click on restore, point it to wherever on the Windows drive you've got the .tbk file, tell it to use the optimized partition layout (or don't tell it not to, depending on how that checkbox is worded), and I prefer to set the swap partition size around 1000MB instead of the stock 128MB. I don't know if that's really necessary the way it was way back when people were first upgrading Series 1 drives and developed the 1MB for every 2GB of new drive size rule of thumb, but it's only enough room for about 15 minutes of video, so I consider it cheap insurance.

    Then you tell it to proceed, it starts and will probably appear to freeze and be doing nothing but it's still working, and eventually it'll finish, which will leave you with a drive with the original 13 partitions and the rest of the space will be a big Apple Free 14th partition. Then it'll tell you there's extra space and do you want to expand and you say yes, and it adds an MFS partition pair where the Apple Free partition is, making it disappear, and that fills the drive and gives you 15 partitions.

    Then you click on mfsinfo and make sure it doesn't throw up any error messages.

    Then you boot it in the TiVo to make sure it works.

    Since the image came from an S3 HD with a different TiVo Service Number, it'll probably complain, and you'll need to either let it do what it wants to to fix it, or run a clear and delete everything, and then go through guided setup.


    Eventually, you'll get it set up the way you want it, cable provider chosen, local OTA channels detected, cable cards paired, et cetera.

    At that point you should hook it back to the PC and use at least WinMFS to make a .tbk truncated image of that particular drive the way it's set up now, since the 1TB is only being used temporarily and you won't be putting it on a shelf for an emergency back up the way you would with a good working original 160GB drive.

    You can also teach yourself enough about the MFS Live cd tools and make a .bak truncated backup as well, just for extra safety (If Windows craps out on you just as you need to create a new replacement TiVo drive, you've still got something)

    Both of those truncated backups will create a 13 partition 160GB restoration, not a 15 partition 1TB one, but you can always expand to 15 partitions again with WinMFS or the MFS Live cd if you've restored to a drive larger than 160Gb.

    At that point hook both the 1TB and the 2TB to the PC and boot with the jmfs cd v1.04 and let it do a byte for byte copy of the 1TB to the 2TB, and then expand into the rest of the space by adding a single, 16th, MFS Media partition.

    Then go back to WinMFS and tell it to supersize the 2TB.

    Then put it in the TiVo and enjoy.
     
  3. Nov 17, 2012 #9123 of 10248
    deafwhisperer

    deafwhisperer New Member

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    Nov 13, 2012
    Okay, I'm assuming you're talking about running the extended test on the new drive before putting it into service?
    <<
    Yes, Data Lifeguard Diagnostic for Windows - Extended Test

    Test has been completed and the new drive is good.
    >>


    Have you connected the original 160GB drive to a PC and tested it with the manufacturer's diagnostics to see just how dead it is or isn't?
    <<
    Well, the original 160GB passed the extended test. Maybe not that dead or it's fine.
    >>


    We need to be sure your problem is a bad drive and not a power supply with "capacitor plague" since both are possible with that model.
    <<
    I've already inspected the capacitors and they looked fine. I was also using WD Expander. My hope is that HD is the problem.
    >>

    I'll proceed using the original HD. Hopefully, once done, Tivo will start up without a problem. If there's a problem, I'll order a power supply for it.

    Many thanks.
     
  4. Nov 17, 2012 #9124 of 10248
    deafwhisperer

    deafwhisperer New Member

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    Nov 13, 2012
    Gee... I need to divorce the 160GB before proceeding with JMFS... It was connected to an external HD. I was planning to use one big 2 TB and not use the external HD.

    I tried to divorce it by putting it back in Tivo and start it up. After the "Welcome! Powering Up..." message, it just go blank - No Signal to the TV. Is there another way to divorce it?

    I'm searching for answers in this forum.
     
  5. Nov 17, 2012 #9125 of 10248
    deafwhisperer

    deafwhisperer New Member

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    Nov 13, 2012
    According to WinMFS doc:
    Mfssplit
    Use this option to divorce Tivo "B" drive. All recordings on "B" drive is lost and some recordings on "A" will be lost if it spans across "A" and "B" drives. Use built in divorce for Tivo S3. This function is not supported for Tivo HD.


    But has anyone tried this option for Tivo HD anyway?

    I'm pretty much stuck at this point. Any suggestions? All the caps are fine and I don't see any visible problem with the power supply. I've also reset the battery and it doesn't make any difference.
     
  6. Nov 17, 2012 #9126 of 10248
    madscientist

    madscientist Deregistered Snoozer

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    Nov 12, 2003
    Lexington, MA
    So, the HD in my TivoHD (652160) is starting to go: it still works but I'm getting lots of skipping and artifacts in my shows over the last week or so. This will be my second replacement: I already replaced the factory drive with a 1TB drive a few years ago (I can't remember dates... I really should write this stuff down).

    I don't necessarily need to go to a 1.5TB or 2TB drive to get those last few hours available to me with TivoHD: my current 157H is OK. But if it's easy I'll take the extra :).

    All things being equal I'd like to preserve my shows but if that's not feasible that's OK too. I'm very familiar/more comfortable with UNIX/Linux (I was using dd to create Linux boot floppies back in the early 1990's) but I can do Windows too; it seems like winmfs is now the most modern solution.

    Looking around from my last update I have an old instantcake ISO from Jan 2010 or so, if useful for any reason (sounds like not so much, from most comments here).

    What's my best bet? I was looking at either WD15EADS or WD10EADS. The newer WD15EARS etc. would be OK too but they have AF... however it seems that this can be overcome these days and is not a show-stopper any longer?

    After I have a drive, can I start with my current image and copy it over? Or do I have to start over with a fresh image (from instantcake or similar)? I saw the very interesting and detailed post below; that's with an S3 but would a similar procedure work for me?

    Thanks for any thoughts...

     
  7. Nov 17, 2012 #9127 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC

    I put a WD20EADS in my TCD652160.

    Later I "Xeroxed" it to a WD20EURS when I managed to grab one for $100 from Amazon. It's designed to be a 24/7 AV drive.

    Seems to be working fine so far.


    Here's how I originally did the first drive.

    Typing it up once in 24 hours is enough.

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9382467#post9382467
     
  8. Nov 17, 2012 #9128 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    I think that's a different (sort-of) divorce from the one built into the later TiVos designed to use external drives. It's from the PATA/IDE drive days of the Series 1 and Series 2 models.

    Try this:

    Put the 160 in the S3 HD, and connect the external drive. Power up the external, then the TiVo.

    See if you can get to a point where the TiVo can divorce the external.
     
  9. Nov 17, 2012 #9129 of 10248
    madscientist

    madscientist Deregistered Snoozer

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    Nov 12, 2003
    Lexington, MA
    Aha. I did read that but didn't notice the bit at the bottom "At that point hook both the 1TB and the 2TB to the PC and boot with the jmfs cd v1.04 and let it do a byte for byte copy of the 1TB to the 2TB, and then expand into the rest of the space by adding a single, 16th, MFS Media partition." which is, I'm guessing, where the preserving of the previous show content happens. I thought these instructions only covered creating a new, clean image.

    I'll read again more carefully, thanks!
     
  10. Nov 17, 2012 #9130 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC

    When jmfs copies, it copies everything, byte for byte (including, unfortunately, Apple Free partitions if they exist).
     
  11. Nov 17, 2012 #9131 of 10248
    deafwhisperer

    deafwhisperer New Member

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    Nov 13, 2012
    Put the 160 in the S3 HD, and connect the external drive. Power up the external, then the TiVo.

    <<
    Yeah, I tried that to go back to the way it was. It doesn't appear to change anything.
    >>
     
  12. Nov 19, 2012 #9132 of 10248
    deafwhisperer

    deafwhisperer New Member

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    Nov 13, 2012
    I want to report that my Tivo is working awesome now! It now has a recording time of 318 hrs.

    It turns out the CMOS battery was the problem. Resetting it didn't work. Once the battery was replaced, it started to work. I've not had any problems for a 1 1/2 day so far.

    Thanks for the help! I'm stoked to get more value out of the lifetime subscription on my unit!!!
     
  13. Nov 19, 2012 #9133 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC

    I'm glad to hear that you managed to resuscitate your TiVo.


    And thanks for the data point/troubleshooting tip that may help others do the same with theirs.
     
  14. Nov 20, 2012 #9134 of 10248
    AndyJC

    AndyJC New Member

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    Feb 16, 2008
    So, I've read through as many pages as I can but 300+ is getting unwieldy. I need a few points in the right direction please!

    I have a working Tivo HD with what I'm assuming is the 160gb drive. I bought it new so no modifications. I'm using a Windows 7 laptop and purchased a USB to SATA adapter. I also purchase a WD 20EURS drive.

    WinMFS looks straightforward to me but what will the outcome be? Will it be 1.26TB of recording space or 2Tb? I'm trying to figure out the special steps, if any, to get to 2Tb. And can I do it with the laptop? Or do I have to use a desktop? I saw the post above about 2Tb, but it involves using a 1tb as well and I'm not sure why...

    Any pointers? Thanks in advance!
     
  15. Nov 20, 2012 #9135 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    If you want to go straight from the 160GB to the 2TB, then skip WinMFS and just use jmfs v1.04

    You'll need to be able to connect both drives to the same computer at the same time in order to be able to do that.

    And make sure your TiVo has updated to version 11.0k of the TiVo software.

    Which it should have done quite some time ago.


    The reason I used a 1TB drive as a middleman is because I wanted to increase the size of the swap partition and add a third MFS partition pair, so that no single partition was over 1TB in size.

    jmfs just copies the source drive "as is", and then adds one more partition to use up all of the extra space.

    In order to answer some of your questions and concerns I'm going to have to do some more experimenting, but I have no idea when I'll be able to get to that, as it involves taking TiVos out of service and using drives that would otherwise be available to take some of the storage pressure off of the TiVos still in service.
     
  16. Nov 21, 2012 #9136 of 10248
    AndyJC

    AndyJC New Member

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    Feb 16, 2008
    Thanks for the info. Sadly, I'm using a laptop so I can't connect both drives at once. I'll play around with winmfs and see what I can come up with. Thanks again!
     
  17. Nov 22, 2012 #9137 of 10248
    AndyJC

    AndyJC New Member

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    Feb 16, 2008
    Well, I think they sent me a bad drive.

    I was able to hook up my 160 Tivo HD to the Vantec adapter and using winmfs made a backup. I was also able to copy the drive onto another external USB drive.

    The new WD drive wasn't visible in winmfs. It did show up in Jmfs, but the copy from my external USB drive to the new 2tb WD failed after only 6gb. It showed up in mfslive as well, but the copy just exited without doing anything.

    I tried basically every combination of drives and methods I could think of and think the new drive is bad, so it's going back and I'll try again when another drive arrives...
     
  18. Nov 22, 2012 #9138 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Apr 28, 2006
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    Whenever one buys a new (or new to you) hard drive, the first thing one should do is run that brand's diagnostic software long test.

    Never assume something is good, even if it's new.
     
  19. Nov 24, 2012 #9139 of 10248
    ac3dd

    ac3dd New Member

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    Mar 2, 2002
    This thread is way too long to read everything, the tools and technologies have changed since the FAQ at the start of the thread was posted, and Google turns up a bunch of outdated pages so I'm kind of lost now and hope one of you experts can point me in the right direction.

    I have a WD15EARS 1.5TB which I got last year that I've been using for external backup of my PCs. But I don't really need that much space for backups and so now I'm using a couple of old smaller hard drives for that purpose, with the intention of putting the 1.5TB in my TiVo Series3. In addition to wanting more space, the TiVo has been freezing and rebooting often upon reaching specific spots in various shows, which is presumably because of the hard drive going bad.

    I upgraded the TiVo shortly after purchasing it years ago and now I don't have the original drive any more. Will it be possible to do the upgrade while preserving my recordings? Is there still a 1.26TB limitation on the usable space? Does the WD15EARS drive still have the soft-reboot problem?

    I don't remember what is the size in GB of the hard drive currently in the TiVo is, but the system information screen says "Up to 70 HD hours, or 610 hours for SD".

    I'm running Linux as my main OS, and I have an external eSATA/USB dock plus a USB-only dock. I am comfortable using the Linux command line to do things like make byte-for-byte copies of partitions with dd. I have an available partition and a Windows XP CD so I can install it there if Windows is necessary.

    What are the software tools I'll need to get the WD15EARS working in the TiVo S3 and transfer the recordings from the old drive?
     
  20. Nov 24, 2012 #9140 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    The way you transfer recordings is to copy the entire old drive.

    It's what you do afterwards to use the extra space on the new drive where the devil is in the details.


    By S3 do you mean you have a TCD648250? The one with the front panel that looks like a sideways mercury thermometer, with the OLED display and the buttons?

    If so, this post may be of interest.

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=9168233#post9168233

    although I still haven't figured out how he got around the problem of an upgraded drive already having 15 partitions out of the maximum allowable 16, since WinMFS can only add MFS pairs, unlike jmfs which can add a single MFS media partition to S4 and S3 HD and S3 HD XL drives, but apparently can't recognize the original S3 as a TiVo drive, which is odd, because it's pretty much the same as the HD and HD XL.

    I'm getting ready to do an experiment to see if not using the "optimized" partition layout makes a difference.

    I think the 1.2TB limit might be partition size and not drive size, but I don't know enough to know for sure.

    You'll need to make sure you aren't using a GigaByte brand motherboard.

    You should run WD's own diagnostics long test on that EARS before committing to using it in the TiVo, and you should run wdidle3 to disable Intellipark on it.

    Both are available on the Ultimate Boot cd, along with a bunch of other stuff.


    For "Xeroxing" drives, I prefer

    dd_rescue -v source target

    so that I've got something on the screen showing me what's going on, and so that there's some error handling if necessary.


    Now if you have an S3 HD (TCD652160), you can just use the jmfs cd v1.04


    The MFS Live cd v1.4 is handy to have around as well.
     

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