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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Dec 7, 2011 #8321 of 10284
    steve614

    steve614 what ru lookin at?

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    If what you bought is anything like Seagates' externals, you will wreck the case getting to the hard drive.
    The hard drive itself should be pretty well protected.
     
  2. Dec 7, 2011 #8322 of 10284
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Never opened one myself (but only because I've never had my hands on one.:)), but check this video out:

    [media]http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mZUMh_H3B_Y[/media]

    Note that the drive inside yours probably won't be a 15EADS but a 15EARS.

    Either should work fine in a TiVo once you turn off Intellipark.

    You find somewhere to download wdidle3, it should be an image of a bootable cd, and you burn your self a copy, and boot the computer with it with the drive attached to a SATA port on the motherboard.

    (If it's a GigaByte brand motherboard, say so, so we can deal with the necessary extra precautions to keep it from trying to put a Host Protected Area on the drive)


    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kCS8ui-6WZY&feature=related


    Adding links as my failing internet connection lets me.
     
  3. Dec 8, 2011 #8323 of 10284
    philt56

    philt56 Member

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    Sorry if this is a repeat of earlier posts, but want to make sure this is something worth doing. I have a Tivo HD with the 500GB WD expander on it probably 3 years old or so. Until recently it had been fine. Earlier this summer, I was getting reboots and it would be stuck until I powered down the Tivo and expander and let it sit for a couple days. It was then good for a couple months and same thing happened. Again I unplugged for a day and things were good. Now third time, no luck. Went on vacation and left it unplugged for a week, Tivo comes up and is good for maybe 3 hours and then reboots and is stuck in a power up loop. When I do unplug and get it back, I do see all my recordings and they seem intact. So I'm more suspicious that it's the enclosure hardware vs the drive itself.

    Is it possible to take the drive from the the expander and put it in a new enclosure (any specifc one best?) and still keep all the data on both drives? Does the "remarry" procedure cause the existing data to be lost?

    Weakknees says they can do it with one of the enclosures that they sell, but says I have to ship them both the Tivo and the expander for them to do it. But they won't guarantee the results if it's the drive that was bad. Seems like I should be able to remove the internal drive and send it with the expander.

    I ran the boot start 54 and got a error on the external drive but sounds like that's not a guarantee it's the HD itself, could be the case hw too? The other funny thing, is the scan never finished on the external drive. The screen said the estimate completion time was maybe 4 hrs (don't remember exactly) and it was still running after 8 hrs!


    I assume there is no way to copy everything from the 2 married drives to a single new drive right?

    thanks for everyone's help!
    Phil
     
  4. Dec 8, 2011 #8324 of 10284
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Well-Known Member

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    John's...
    The recordings are tied to the TSN of the TiVo. That's why they need everything.
     
  5. Dec 8, 2011 #8325 of 10284
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    You should probably remove both the internal drive and remove the external from its enclosure and run the WD diagnostics long test on both to be sure if either drive or both are going bad or not.

    And while you've got the S3 HD open you should carefully inspect the power supply's capacitors.

    Search my posts for "capacitor OR capacitors" and you should find links to how to spot any going bad, and explanations of why it matters.
     
  6. Dec 10, 2011 #8326 of 10284
    seriously_tho

    seriously_tho New Member

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    I've got a HD XL with a hard drive about to croak. Time to replace. I've read thru the FAQ here & have a handful of questions before I begin -

    The goal is to clone my existing drive & save all settings & recordings to a larger single internal drive (2tb).

    First, the supported drives list seems outdated & they're all 1tb or smaller. Is there a current list? (I'm too new to post a link to the list)

    I'm eyeballing this on Amazon, look OK? Is there a better comparable option?

    Western Digital AV-GP 2 TB SATA II - WD20EURS


    Next I plan on using WinMFS to clone etc. Looks like the latest build was almost 3 years ago - is this still the best option? Will this work OK with Win 7 using an external SATA drive dock?

    winmfs_beta9_3f


    TIA!
     
  7. Dec 10, 2011 #8327 of 10284
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    See if your local Target still has any 2TB WD Elements external drives on sale. (Sale ends today, it's a closeout).

    It'll be cheaper than buying one any other way now that prices have skyrocketed due to the flooding in Thailand.

    There should be a Caviar Green inside that'll work just fine. If not, it'll be a more expensive Blue or Black.

    To actually expand after the copy, you'll need to use jmfs, there's a separate thread about using it on S3 HDs (plus the original thread about using it on the Premiere, which is what it was really designed for).

    However, if you use WinMFS to take a look at your HD's original drive, you can tell us how big the swap partition is, compared to the one on the regular HD's 160GB drive.

    Also you could use WinMFS to do the copy onto the 2TB and enlarge the swap partition size in the process before using jmfs for the actual expand, I think.

    If you aren't in a huge hurry you could do a little non-destructive experimentation from which the rest of us could learn.
     
  8. Dec 10, 2011 #8328 of 10284
    seriously_tho

    seriously_tho New Member

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    No dice on the 2tb WD external at Target but I can probably find the 1.5 tb. Same deal?

    Honestly the expanding isn't very important, I've never reached capacity on the existing drive (HD XL with 150 hrs of HD capacity). Just seems like if I'm going to replace I might as well upgrade. But tell me, you say use JMFS to expand after copying, is it going to get complex? I'm no genius with partitions & formatting, just following the walkthru.
     
  9. Dec 10, 2011 #8329 of 10284
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Yeah, whatever's in there should work just fine in a TiVo.

    After you take it out of the enclosure (bye bye warranty, technically), you'll need to hook it straight to a SATA port on a PC motherboard and boot from a bootable cd with wdidle3 on it and enter the command

    wdidle3 /d

    to disable the intellipark feature that interferes with the TiVo doing a soft reboot.

    Somewhere around here I posted a link to a YouTube about how to take the enclosure apart.

    You'll need to hook it and the original TiVo drive to SATA ports and boot into Windows XP or newer and run WinMFS to copy, with swap partition increase, from the TiVo drive to the new drive.

    Before you do, (after opening WinMFS) select the TiVo drive, click mfsinfo, and make a note of the size of the original drive's swap partition and report it back to us.

    Then you'll need to shut down Windows, reboot with a jmfs cd, and use jmfs to expand.

    jmfs boots to a menu of choices, all you have to do is choose expand.

    Actually, if the swap partition is already 500MB or better, you can use jmfs to do both the copy and the expand.
     
  10. Dec 10, 2011 #8330 of 10284
    MeInDallas

    MeInDallas Member

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    I have a friend, her drive went out on her TiVo HD, she was running the original drive. I took it out and ran a SMART test and it shows to be failing. So I had an older Seagate Barracuda 7200.8 250GB ST3250823AS sitting around that I imaged and popped in her TiVo that she can have until prices come down and she can get a good WD Green AV replacement. Well I put it in there and did all the updates and got it going and I tested it recording 2 HD shows at once while watching a 3rd already recorded show. Holy smokes this thing started "clicking" like crazy! I took it back out and tried to adjust the AAM settings, but everything I try to do it with shows that AAM option is not available for this drive. I really dont have a lot of experience with Seagate drives. In fact this is the only one I have ever owned before, I'm a Western Digital person.

    So my question is (1) can you not adjust AAM settings on this model drive? and (2) will the constant "clicking" ruin this drive? It seems to record shows just fine and play them back good with no issues so far. I checked the temp and everything is OK there also. Also this drive hasnt been used a lot. It only has a little over 2,000 power on hours in the SMART and I have other drives that are way past 60,000 hours and still going strong. Am I just destroying this drive letting it run in a TiVo?

    :confused:
     
  11. Dec 10, 2011 #8331 of 10284
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Time to get Seagate's diagnostic software and run the long test on it. Clicking usually indicates the drive is getting ready to die, or already has.

    If you're destroying the drive, it's not by letting it run in a TiVo, but just by letting it run.
     
  12. Dec 10, 2011 #8332 of 10284
    seriously_tho

    seriously_tho New Member

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    OK, thanks. Now assuming I can't find that external at Target (they look sold out), can I just order a 2tb WD Caviar Green drive & use? Does it need any special attributes? I read somewhere that there are certain drives built to be used in a DVR.

    I also thought I read I could upgrade the storage cap by 1tb above the existing just by using winMFS - is that not true?
     
  13. Dec 10, 2011 #8333 of 10284
    MeInDallas

    MeInDallas Member

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    See before I imaged it, I ran Seatools on it, and it took like an hour and everything came back fine. No bad sectors or anything and the SMART comes back good also. I also ran HDAT2 and then Spinrite 6.0 and they all say the same thing. When it's not recording, but just watching live TV with the buffer then its silent, but if you start recording 2 shows and then watch another one it starts all this crazy clicking. It's really not that loud, I'm just so used to WD drives being so silent.

    Could it be going bad and it's just not showing up on the tests yet?
     
  14. Dec 10, 2011 #8334 of 10284
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    A lot of people have used the "advanced format" (4096, or 4K, byte sectors) 64MB cache WD20EARS in HDs and Premieres.

    I'm running a non "advanced format" (traditional 512 byte sectors) 32MB cache WD20EADS in an HD and it seems to be working fine.

    If it had an "advanced format" 16MB cache WD20EACS, I wouldn't hesitate to use that.

    All of those are Caviar Greens.

    Of course I'd disable Intellipark on them first.

    There are some "A/V" WD Caviar Greens, and with the current situation you might actually find one cheaper than the recently jacked up in price regular Greens. Or maybe not.

    If you find a good price on a recent-ish model Samsung, that's probably work, also. I'm running a 1TB in a couple of S2s.

    And some Caviar Blacks in a couple of S2 DTs. (but with an extra fan inside the TiVo, the Blacks get warmish)


    The reason to copy with WinMFS is to be able to up the size of the swap partition, since jmfs has no provision for that.

    I think WinMFS observes/runs up against the 1.1TB per drive restriction it was thought TiVos had, so after copying from a 1TB to a 1.5 or a 2 with a bigger swap, I'm hoping jmfs won't interpret the extra space as an "Apple Free" partition, the way the pdisk utility does any unpartioned space (it's a bug/feature/curiousity of the Apple Partition Map which TiVo uses). If it does, it'll think there's no space left into which to expand.

    If you want to hang fire a day or two I can run an experiment on a 1TB and a 2TB I haven't repurposed yet, but in the meantime, if you would, hook up the XL's original 1TB drive to a Windows box and run WinMFS, select that drive, and click on mfsinfo, and copy paste the partition map back here.
     
  15. Dec 10, 2011 #8335 of 10284
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Perhaps we're talking about two different clickings, or different levels of same.

    Death clicks are usually the actuator arm wildy bouncing from beginning to end of the platters. Looking for something that's not there, I suppose.


    Did you use the "optimized" partition layout (the post Series 1, put partition 11 right after partition 1 so the OS is in the middle and recordings are at the end and beginning of the drive, partition layout)?

    If it's recording 2 shows and playing back a third, that's 3 different areas of the drive having to be served by one acuator arm, so it's constantly jumping from one to the other, and that's probably what you're hearing. If it doesn't get louder, you probably don't need to worry for the time being.
     
  16. Dec 10, 2011 #8336 of 10284
    MeInDallas

    MeInDallas Member

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    I just used WinMFS and then copied my TiVo backup file to the disc, and then it asked did I want to supersize it, I assume because the disc was a bit bigger then the original 160GB drive. I've never tried (or knew about) the optimized partition layout. You think that would help with the accoustics?

    It's not really loud, I guess I'm just not used to any sound coming from drives in TiVo's. It reminds me of how a 6GB hard drive sounded 14 years ago in Pentium II computer. :eek:
     
  17. Dec 10, 2011 #8337 of 10284
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    If you used WinMFS it would have automatically used the "optimized" layout unless you specifically told it not to, and one should only do that for a Series 1.

    Supersize is not expand. Expand adds MFS partitions, Supersize does something to free up the space that ordinarily gets set aside by the TiVo for showcases and advertising.
     
  18. Dec 10, 2011 #8338 of 10284
    MeInDallas

    MeInDallas Member

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    Oh OK, I just followed the directions listed here using WinMFS and I have a back up image from my TiVo, she has the same model. I didnt change any of the settings on WinMFS, just went by the directions listed here and the hard drive was wiped before using HDAT2 and then tested.

    I was kinda unsure what Supersize did. :eek:
     
  19. Dec 10, 2011 #8339 of 10284
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Did WinMFS ask you if you wanted to expand?

    I think Supersize is an option you have to select, but that it doesn't prompt you about.
     
  20. Dec 10, 2011 #8340 of 10284
    MeInDallas

    MeInDallas Member

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    Yeah you have to turn it on, but once the image is tranferred over to the drive there is a pop up that comes up and says there is extra space and do you want to expand the drive and you just click yes.

    I think if you have 2 drives connected at the same time and you are transferring from drive to drive its different. I cant remember its been a long time since I did it that way, I'd have to go back and look.
     

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