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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Sep 11, 2011 #8081 of 10248
    analog4

    analog4 New Member

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    Aug 1, 2003
    I am going to go ahead and update the hard drive in the next day or so.

    The basic steps consisted of: Running WinMFS and selecting the drive and making the backup. I have no shows and nothing in my Deleted Items folder, so it should go pretty quick. Then I can update the hard drive firmware, and put it back into the TiVo. If I run into issues I can restore the backup to the drive by selecting the drive in WinMFS and restoring from the file? Last time I did it I went from the 160GB to a 1TB, so I assume I don't have to do anything with the SuperSize option.

    I was planning on doing this using Windows 7, but WinMFS mentions nothing about Windows 7. Has anyone used WinMFS in Windows 7 with out issues or is it recommended to use Windows XP w/ SP2 (or ideally SP3)?
     
  2. Sep 11, 2011 #8082 of 10248
    SnakeEyes

    SnakeEyes Active Member

    1,338
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    Dec 26, 2000
    I know in the past I've seen people mention the season pass manager on TiVo.com. Is there a way to restore these and your To Do list after doing a restore?
     
  3. Sep 11, 2011 #8083 of 10248
    dianebrat

    dianebrat I refuse to accept your reality TCF Club

    10,123
    79
    Jul 6, 2002
    boston'ish
    Original S3, thermometer style as you call it
    didn't count them.
    yes, 1.5TB at 1.35TB as primary
    Everything that I saw suggested it wasn't worth my time, external needed to be 1TB or lower.
    FWIW I'm having pangs about "only" having 750GB for my external and considering going out for another 1TB WDC Green this afternoon to have 2x 1TB since this machine will sit undisturbed for the next few years.
     
  4. Sep 11, 2011 #8084 of 10248
    analog4

    analog4 New Member

    296
    0
    Aug 1, 2003
    I went ahead and did an upgrade. I checked the S.M.A.R.T. attributes and I have a high "Reallocated Sector Count". It also had a high power on time, so I figured if I was going to replace, I better do it now. I grabbed an identical drive, and it had no errors with S.M.A.R.T and put the image from the 1TB I had just pulled out onto that instead, and it asked me if I wanted to use the "extra space" so I hit yes.

    I put it back in and it's now giving me the "GSOD". I am going to keep letting it work - but oddly enough, I did this upgrade/swap to prevent an error from like this from happening.

    After a short time (30 minutes) - the TiVo fixed itself. All seems to be working. Anything I should check? I'm still wondering what happened.

    Should I keep letting the TiVo try to fix itself? I'm trying to figure out what happened.
     
  5. Sep 12, 2011 #8085 of 10248
    husky55

    husky55 Member

    175
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    Feb 2, 2008
    Madison, CT
    Hey Rich, remember me? You helped me !!!! :)
     
  6. Sep 12, 2011 #8086 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    Who here has he not helped at one time or another?

    Even if it was someone who found something he posted years ago that turned out to be exactly the info they needed?

    I'm not a very happy camper over his departure, and wish there had been a way to foresee it and head it off.

    Maybe we should start a separate richsadams tribute thread.
     
  7. Sep 12, 2011 #8087 of 10248
    brentil

    brentil New Member

    342
    0
    Sep 9, 2011
    Beware of Advance Format 4K Drives!

    In looking at other drives to replace my dead TiVoHD drive with I've discovered all of the newer WD Green drives that have 64MB of cache are also Advance Format 4K drives too. The following list of new WD drives when used with a TiVo will result in non-optimal performance because the OS does not understand 4K sectors and the method we use to build partitions does not build 4K sector aligned partitions. The OP should probably be updated with this information. Below is the list of drives to avoid.

    WD Drives
    • EARS (SATA II)
    • EARX (SATA III)
    • EZRX (SATA III)
    • EURS (SATA II)
    • EURX (SATA III)
    • EUCX (SATA III)

    Hitachi Drives
    • CinemaStar 5K1000.B (SATA III)
    • CinemaStar 7K1000.D (SATA III)
    • Deskstar 5K1000.B (SATA III)
    • Deskstar 7K1000.D (SATA III)

    Seagate Drives
    • ST1500DL003 (SATA III)
    • ST2000DL003 (SATA III)

    Hothardware did benchmarks to show the negative impact of running an un-aligned Advance Format 4K drive and the results are rather nasty. The drives run up to 3x SLOWER when used on a non-4K supporting OS with unaligned sectors.

    http://hothardware.com/Articles/WDs...Format-Windows-XP-Users-Pay-Attention/?page=2

    Seagate states their SmartAlign technology built into their drives compensates for a lack of OS support & drive alignment.

    http://www.seagate.com/docs/pdf/whitepaper/mb6101_smartalign_technology_faq.pdf

    However this bjorn3d review shows that this is not the case as the SmartAlign seem incapable of keeping up in terms of performance specifically in the video creation test at the bottom of the page.

    http://www.bjorn3d.com/read.php?cID=1954&pageID=10153
     
  8. Sep 12, 2011 #8088 of 10248
    husky55

    husky55 Member

    175
    0
    Feb 2, 2008
    Madison, CT
    This is very interesting and important data. I just bought a WD20EARS and used it to upgrade a Premiere. Have not seen any impact on the slower speed due to the 4k sectors.

    The Seagate ST2000DL003 did not boot in Tivo Premiere.

    The Hitachi Green 5900 is working in my Premiere.
     
  9. Sep 12, 2011 #8089 of 10248
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,078
    2
    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    Nothing in the report on the WD drives indicates that they will not perform adequately in a TiVo. The WD10EARS I have in my THD is working just fine.

    Based on other posts in this forum, the WD20EARS may have QC problems, but that is a different issue.

    In an analogy, most cars on the street are adequate for their intended purpose. Wouldn't wanna run one at Daytona though.
     
  10. Sep 12, 2011 #8090 of 10248
    brentil

    brentil New Member

    342
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    Sep 9, 2011
    Nothing states they wont work, they just wont work optimally. Which means not just speed performance but then noise, power, and heat wise. Because e512 emulation requires a Read-Modify-Write this means you have to move the head more often and you do less work per unit of time. It may also not be an issue performance wise right now with dual tuners but I could see this greatly impacting Quad tuner TiVo devices.

    This is important information to consider when buying a drive and shouldn't just be pushed aside because everything "seems" to be ok now. Anyone looking to buy a new drive should avoid these drives if they want to optimize performance, heat, power, and noise.
     
  11. Sep 12, 2011 #8091 of 10248
    brentil

    brentil New Member

    342
    0
    Sep 9, 2011
    These newer drives perform on a level above what comes in a stock TiVo so there's a good chance you'll never have an issue performance wise with typical daily load. If you're watching a show, recording 2 others, downloading a show, running TiVo2Go, and MRS then yeah you could have a drop. It'll just be good to keep in mind for the next set of drives you get.
     
  12. Sep 12, 2011 #8092 of 10248
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,078
    2
    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    While it is an additional datum to be taken into consideration, saying flat out that these drives should be avoided goes well beyond that.

    This report is from February 2010. I would think that actual experience of TiVo users would be more relevant.

    And I agree that it may be more of an issue with the Elite.
     
  13. Sep 12, 2011 #8093 of 10248
    brentil

    brentil New Member

    342
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    Sep 9, 2011
    I know this is the S3 section but I wrote this with the S4 in mind as well too. It's been thrown around that the S4 in the future might support streaming without having to have the new Elite device to the TiVo Preview type devices. If that's true then the device needs to handle 2 HD streams being written, 1 download being written, 1 local HD stream being read, and up to 3 HD streams being read to Preview devices. From the benchmarks of un-aligned drives on unsupported OS's the impact can be extremely significant which could result in in these types of devices being incapable of proper functionality.

    So yeah I should amend it to be S3 users take this information into consideration and S4 owners should highly consider avoiding Advanced Format drives.
     
  14. Sep 12, 2011 #8094 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
    2
    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    This is in the S3 forum, but this particular thread morphed into the "which drive for which TiVo under which circumstances" thread quite some time back.

    Although I do wish it had been started in the upgrade forum, where the adapter thread is, and stickified there, to begin with.
     
  15. Sep 14, 2011 #8095 of 10248
    rickydee

    rickydee New Member

    18
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    Nov 21, 2006
    I have a S3 that I upgraded a long time ago that I now have to return to Tivo - problem is the I used the original 250GB drive for something else and now have a 750GB internal.

    Can anyone point me to how to return the S3 back to using the 250GB drive? Is it possible to delete all the recordings and then simply copy the contents of the 750GB drive to the 250GB drive? Are the any parameters that I need to be aware of?

    Any help would be greatly appreciated since upgrading posts seem plentiful but its harder to find a sticky on how to revert back to original drives. At this point, I wonder if Tivo would even balk at the returned unit if I left the 750GB version in the S3, but my preference is to return it with the stock drive.
     
  16. Sep 14, 2011 #8096 of 10248
    brentil

    brentil New Member

    342
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    Sep 9, 2011
    You could use InstantCake or beg someone for an image I bet.
     
  17. Sep 14, 2011 #8097 of 10248
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,078
    2
    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    Why do you have to return it to TiVo?
     
  18. Sep 14, 2011 #8098 of 10248
    brentil

    brentil New Member

    342
    0
    Sep 9, 2011
    I've opted to go with the WD WD10EVDS and I'll go in an disable the IntelliPark to prevent soft reboot issues. This seems to be one of the best feature wise DVR specific drives still available for a decent price without Advanced Format.
     
  19. Sep 14, 2011 #8099 of 10248
    Replacement

    Replacement New Member

    37
    0
    Oct 21, 2006
    Minneapolis, MN
    Ok, I need to replace my power supply in my S3 and I was thinking that it may be time to upgrade the HD to something that has more space. I was thinking either a 500gb or 750 gb internal HD, but I don't know what ones or how much $ I would be looking at. I did some searching here, and started reading the 1st post in this thread and it looks like it hasn't been updated in over a year and the rest of this is 200+ pages so I was hoping that someone with experience can fill me in or point me in the right direction here.

    Thanks,
    Eric
     
  20. Sep 14, 2011 #8100 of 10248
    ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay

    6,724
    8
    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    I would suggest going with a 1 Tb drive, as they are cheaper then the smaller capacity drives. You would be getting about 150 hours of digital/HD recording. For the brand, Western Digital is is good. The drive would need to be SATA.

    A good online site is amazon.com. They cost under $60.

    You would also need to hook the drives up to a PC and copy the drive from the Tivo to the new drive. You cannot let Windows format the drives as they are not readable. Mfslive.org is the site to obtain the proper program. I would suggest WinMFS as its the easiest to use, the other MFS programs require you to make a bootable CD to boot from, with your PC drive disconnected, you would also need to type linux commands.
     

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