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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Sep 9, 2011 #8061 of 10248
    Teeps

    Teeps Active Member

    1,664
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    Aug 16, 2001
    Torrance,Cal...
    Thanks for your help and encouragement, Rich.

    You will be missed.

    Cheers,
    Tom
     
  2. Sep 9, 2011 #8062 of 10248
    ccrider2

    ccrider2 New Member

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    Nov 1, 2007
    +1 :up:

    Many words of encouragement to you in anything you might do.

    And a big THANKS!.... for all the help,
    Chris
     
  3. Sep 9, 2011 #8063 of 10248
    brentil

    brentil New Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    My TiVoHD's drive just bit the bullet so I was on here doing a bunch of research about what drive to get. In doing my searching I've found Hitachi has released 2 new revisions of drives mentioned here. It looks like these were just released and also explains why I can't find anymore CinemaStar 7K1000.C drives in stock anywhere.


    These drives now put 1TB per platter so they reduce costs, complexity, & power. They also use the new 4k file sectors but luckily do e512 to emulate the old 512b sectors while still giving a performance gain.

    The 7K1000.D versus the 7K1000.C is now 3.7w at idle versus 4.4w, 1822mb/s platter transfer rate versus 1589mb/s, and is 2.5 Bels at idle versus 2.5 Bels at idle.

    The 5K1000.B versus the 5K1000 is now 3.0w at idle versus 3.4w, 1443mb/s platter transfer rate versus 1265mb/s, and is 2.0 Bels at idle versus 2.4 Bels at idle.

    The new CinemaStar 5K1000.B looks to be a really nice drive in terms of power, acoustics, and speed. The problem is it seems both drives are so new they're not available to order yet...

    My one concern is these are SATA3 devices, do the TiVo's have issues with those?
     
  4. Sep 9, 2011 #8064 of 10248
    brentil

    brentil New Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    Their official press release was 3 days ago on the 6th, this bit was at the end but no mention on exact dates or price yet.

     
  5. Sep 9, 2011 #8065 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    If they're 6GB/s (or is it 6Gb/s?), they should be able to autonegotiate down to 3, just like the 3s could drop to 1.5, so if the TiVo's SATA port is a 3 per second, probably good to go, but if only 1.5, I don't know if the 6s are smart/backwards compatible enough for that or not.


    (I bet rich would know :( )
     
  6. Sep 9, 2011 #8066 of 10248
    lrhorer

    lrhorer New Member

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    Aug 31, 2003
    San...
    I'm not sure what you mean by "code". The Linux kernel deployed with the S3 Tivo utilizes 32 bit signed integers in its ide-disk.c module. This means the limit for a partition size with 512 byte sectors is 2 ^ 31 * 512 = 1,099,511,627,776 bytes.

    It appears tivoapp has some 32 bit pointers somewhere that limit the total size to 2TB.

    I suspect DVR_Dude has learned how to either create a viable partition map with more than 16 partitions, or else has learned how to merge MFS partitions.
     
  7. Sep 9, 2011 #8067 of 10248
    hummingbird_206

    hummingbird_206 Active Member

    8,791
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    Aug 22, 2007
    Near...
    Rich, it would be a huge loss for you to leave this thread. I wouldn't blame you for leaving it, but I for one really appreciate all you add to it. I will miss you and the great advice and assistance you provide here.
     
  8. Sep 9, 2011 #8068 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC

    Well, I was talking more about the TiVo-specific software than the Linux stuff to which they add it, but if there's an approximate 1TB limit per partition, perhaps the external drive is, the way S3s are set up/designed, supposed to only have one partition on it (which would obviously have a maximum 1TB size), so the S3 sees anything in addition to the partitions on the original internal drive as an external drive and that's how you get the original drive size plus a TB overall limit on S3s.

    So I'm going to guess that getting an S3 to use all of a 2TB drive means convincing it to allow the MFS partitions that it thinks of as being on the internal drive (as opposed to that final 1TB partition that it thinks of as being on the external drive) to be larger than the size they are on the original internal drive.

    I'd like to see the partition maps of the original internal drives of the 3 different S3 platform models, but I don't have any of those machines to take apart and look at with MFS Live or WinMFS.
     
  9. Sep 9, 2011 #8069 of 10248
    brentil

    brentil New Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    I hunted down the Hitachi compatability guide for the drive.

    http://lite.myfabrik.com/tech/techlib.nsf/techdocs/C5C34C27C6AF0D7D88257903001B16A3/$file/DS7K1000.D_5K1000.B_CompatGuide_v1.0.pdf

    They list a good number of old SATA I (1.5) motherboards, chipsets, and controller cards as being supported by both drives. The testing was mainly done to prove the new 4k cluster e512 tech worked flawlessly on older equipment but it also proves it works great on old SATA I & II systems.
     
  10. Sep 10, 2011 #8070 of 10248
    brentil

    brentil New Member

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    Sep 9, 2011
    Ok, more research about the new Advanced Format 4k cluster drives like these. Even though they do e512 emulation it still requires OS, partition, & application support to prevent performance degredation.

    Ignoring all of that bad news alone the S3 TiVo 11 software runs on Linux kernel 2.4.x and 4K support wasn't added until Linux kernel 2.6.34+. The S4 software 14 runs Linux kernel 2.6.x from before Aug 2009 so it wouldn't even support it. Digging into the code on the www.tivo.com/linux/ for the 14 source code I noticed there's a version 16 also but it is only 2.6.31.

    Based on all of that I would highly recomend staying away from any Advanced Feature 4K drive in a TiVo device. If you were building a PC DVR they would actually be very beneficial, but for our needs it would decrease performance.
     
  11. Sep 10, 2011 #8071 of 10248
    Alvysyngr

    Alvysyngr New Member

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    Dec 1, 2003
    I just saw your reply. I bought a 1.5 and DID the supersize. It booted but only reports 36 hrs. This may be the problem! I'll try again and report back
     
  12. Sep 10, 2011 #8072 of 10248
    SnakeEyes

    SnakeEyes Active Member

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    Dec 26, 2000
    FYI... just restored a virgin TiVo HD image to my OEM drive using Parallels 6 on my Intel Mac Mini with the help of a Thermaltake Black Widow Dock. I'm going through Guided Setup now so apparently it can be done with Parallels.

    Thanks Rich!

    Quick questions for others since Rich is retiring, is mfsadd only for when restoring/upgrading to a larger drive and not for restoring to a same size OEM drive? Because I was never asked to do this after finishing restoring.

    Also, I recall something about choosing clear and delete everything to avoid an error message after putting a drive in. Does this apply to me after reimaging an OEM drive? When would one see that error? I'm going through guided setup now, having never seen it. Do I need to go to that option in settings once I get to TiVo Central?
     
  13. Sep 10, 2011 #8073 of 10248
    dwit

    dwit Active Member

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    May 4, 2004
    Atlanta, GA
    Yes, MFS Add, is for adding capacity beyond that from which the original image was made.

    As for the "hardware error", that is encoutered when/if the image is from another like Tivo(same model but different TSN). Example: If you purchased a Tivo identical to yours, and you switched hard drives between, the "hardware error" would be encountered, on both. Neither machine could play recording made on the other.
     
  14. Sep 10, 2011 #8074 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    mfsadd adds MFS partitions (in pairs) if you have enough empty space at the end of the drive in which to put them.
     
  15. Sep 10, 2011 #8075 of 10248
    SnakeEyes

    SnakeEyes Active Member

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    Well I never saw the error, restored from an image that someone else provided to me. Everything is working fine.
     
  16. Sep 10, 2011 #8076 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Did they provide you with an image that was set to go straight into guided setup on first bootup?
     
  17. Sep 10, 2011 #8077 of 10248
    SnakeEyes

    SnakeEyes Active Member

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    Dec 26, 2000
    It went straight to guided setup.
     
  18. Sep 10, 2011 #8078 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    That's probably why it didn't throw you an error 51.
     
  19. Sep 10, 2011 #8079 of 10248
    dianebrat

    dianebrat I refuse to accept your reality TCF Club

    10,114
    73
    Jul 6, 2002
    boston'ish
    Answering my own query with experience,
    No, one can not add another external drive to a setup with a 1.35TB primary in an S3. I had plenty of time this weekend and just could not get it to work, I tried adding both a 1TB to the 1.35TB and then a 750GB, neither would marry the 1.35TB primary.

    Solution: 1TB WDC green and a spare 750GB I had in the house for 1.75TB total with 278 hours of HD storage. ...and before anyone says it, I was too impatient to wait for my other 1TB to come back from Seagate.
     
  20. Sep 11, 2011 #8080 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    See, I told you you should have spent the weekend doing what I would have if I were still young enough!:)

    When you say HD storage, do you mean you got the 1TB and the 750GB to work in a thermometer front S3, storing hi-def content, or that you set the S3 aside and put the drives in an S3 platform HD?

    Either way, which is the boot drive? How many partitions do you have on which?

    I assume the 1.35 primary was actually physically a 1.5 (or a 2?)?

    Did you ever try it with a small primary and adding a 1.5 or a 2 as the second drive?
     

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