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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Aug 25, 2011 #7961 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    The WD20EARS in our TiVo Premiere has been flawless for about a year now.

    FWIW I've found Newegg reviews to be so-so for a couple of reasons. First their drive packaging used to be horrendous (OEM clamshell bouncing around inside an empty box at times). That has improved markedly recently though. Second, as with any service or product folks that have problems tend to complain whereas satisfied customers tend to not take the time to post a review. For better or worse Newegg is also more frequently patronized by "techies" that have a higher demand threshold than general consumers.

    The same drive on Amazon has almost 500 reviews with an average of 4 out of 5 rating with almost 300 5 star as opposed to about 100 1 and 2 star combined (and even some of those have nothing to do with the drive, but some oddity to do with the delivery or something). That would put the return rate at around 20%.

    With respect to TiVo, although the hard drive is running 24/7, the data throughput is less demanding than for most home computers. Add to that the widely held position that continually powering a hard drive up and down has a bigger negative impact on lifespan than one that has a steady power flow and it's likely that drives used in TiVo's are no more likely to fail (and possibly less so) than drives being used in other situations.

    All of that said it doesn't appear that the failure rate for the WD20EARS is any worse and sometimes is better than for other similar hard drives.

    So the bottom line IMO and based on the success rates for folks upgrading TiVo's for five years or more is that the WD GP drives have a consistent positive track record (and why TiVo continues to use them as OEM hard drives). YMMV of course and others may have some additional feedback.

    For anyone wanting to get a deeper understanding of hard drive failure rates, causes, etc. Google did an excellent study a little while back. It's a bit dated now but still referred to by some of the experts.

    http://static.googleusercontent.com...abs.google.com/en/us/papers/disk_failures.pdf

    One of their conclusions...

     
  2. Aug 25, 2011 #7962 of 10248
    A J Ricaud

    A J Ricaud New Member

    1,143
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    Jun 25, 2002
    Hacienda...
    Thanks for your insight, Rich Tivo & iPad friend).
     
  3. Aug 25, 2011 #7963 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    :D
     
  4. Aug 25, 2011 #7964 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    NewEgg reviews are more likely to actually be for the product to which they are attached than Amazon reviews.
     
  5. Aug 26, 2011 #7965 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    True enough, however IMO they are also more likely to be of the negative variety on Newegg as well as for products that are put into much more intensive service than TiVo demands. That's six of one and half a dozen of another if the drive is DOA or fails immediately of course.

    Part of the positive/negative difference is also with how the two companies handle returns; Amazon making it as easy as possible while Newegg doing just the opposite (both in my experience at least). Again, satisfied customers don't tend to make as much noise as unhappy ones.
     
  6. Aug 26, 2011 #7966 of 10248
    unitron

    unitron Active Member

    16,387
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    Apr 28, 2006
    semi-coastal NC
    With Amazon you're likely to get reviews for the 500GB, 750, or 1TB version of a drive attached to the page where they're selling the 2TB, or to get reviews for a different model number at the same capacity.

    Since pages on Amazon are for both Amazon and other sellers, this greatly increases the chance for review confusion.

    Also, compared to NE, there's an even greater chance of the pictures or description being not entirely correct, although the record may be when I ordered a couple of WD server-type drives last spring only to find out that was what was in their database matched to a part number from Price Pros that was actually for "adult lubricant":rolleyes:

    At least now I know why the price was so low.;)
     
  7. Aug 26, 2011 #7967 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Well...I guess that could be considered a "bonus". :p
     
  8. Aug 27, 2011 #7968 of 10248
    Teeps

    Teeps Active Member

    1,664
    4
    Aug 16, 2001
    Torrance,Cal...
    As of yesterday, the Fantom Drive is off line. Due to installation of a 2TB internal drive upgrade purchased (Ebay store) from dvr_dude.
    TiVo Series 3 TCD648250B Hard Drive Upgrade 2TB WD AVGP

    I wanted to let others know the Fantom Drive was working without a problem since installed on 4-OCT-2008.

    I'd say I got my $$$$ worth of use from it.
     
  9. Aug 27, 2011 #7969 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Thanks for that...good to know. IIRC Fantoms utilize WD GP drives so that's a bit of additional good news with respect to their longevity.

    Enjoy your "new" TiVo!
     
  10. Aug 27, 2011 #7970 of 10248
    Gowan

    Gowan New Member

    17
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    Apr 13, 2005
    Houston, Texas
    Okay, this thread is very long and I think my brain is mush at this point so I'm getting a little confused.

    I have a TivoHD. It was still stock until yesterday. I had a 400GB Seagate drive lying around and got a bug in my bonnet to upgrade the HD. Everything went very well. Drive seems to work fine. However, it's loud. Also, obviously, hard drives these days are pretty cheap. So, I'm thinking I'll go ahead and buy a bigger, quieter drive and upgrade to that.

    I have three drive choices: A Western Digital 1TB AV-GP (WD10EURS - $70), a Western Digital 1.5TB Caviar Green (WD15EARS - $60), or a Hitachi 2TB Deskstar 5K3000 (0F12117 - $70).

    Since I just did the upgrade yesterday, there's no problem for me to hook up the original drive and do the upgrade again. If I read correctly, the problem with the WD Green drives has been resolved by either WD, TiVo or both. I am still confused on whether my upper capacity limit is 1.26TB which would obviously color my choices of replacement hard drive.

    I used the latest WinMFS tool (9.3f) and did a full copy of recordings and all. Three settings confused me, so I didn't mess with them. One was the Supersize function. The other two were options in MFScopy. I recall one is "Custom Linux Swap Size" and don't remember the other.

    I appreciate any and all help from you all. If this all goes well, I'll likely upgrade the hard drive in my old Series 2 as well, although I gather it will have further limitations.

    Thanks!

    <Edit: One odd thing to note: For some reason, Select-Play-Select-Pause-Select doesn't seem to work after my upgrade.>
     
  11. Aug 27, 2011 #7971 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Here is what I would do...

    1. Buy either the 2TB WD20EARS or the WD20EURS drive. The rule of thumb is to always buy as much storage as you can afford and they only cost a few dollars more than the one's you've listed.

    When it comes to TiVo the only difference between the two is that the WD20EURS is a dedicated A/V drive and is a bit quieter. However if you want to add one more step to the upgrade process you can easily change the Auto Acoustic Management (AAM) in the WD20EARS to match that of the WD20EURS at 128 by using the PARM function in the jmfs program.

    Both drives may need the Intellipark feature adjusted to avoid boot or menu restart hangs. See Section IV, #29 of the first post on this FAQ for details:

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=5616160#post5616160

    The 2TB Hitachi Coolspin you've listed is an option and IIRC being used by a couple of folks here but they haven't been on the market long enough to make a recommendation one way or another. That drive would not need the Intellipark adjustment the WD drives might require and the AAM cannot be adjusted so it takes a little less time and effort for an upgrade.

    2. Use your original TiVo hard drive and the jmfs program to upgrade. Here's the link to the program and all of the instructions needed:

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

    You seem to know your way around your TiVo and a computer, so I think you'll find jmfs a cakewalk.

    Hope that helps and happy upgrading!
     
  12. Aug 27, 2011 #7972 of 10248
    teasip

    teasip Member

    521
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    Aug 24, 2002
    I just ordered a WD drive (1TB) to upgrade the HD on my second TiVoHD and was planning on disabling the Intellipark via an SATA dual slot external drive (ThermalTake) that connects via USB to my Windows software via VMWare on my Mac. I now see the statement that the wdidle3 program cannot be run via such an attachment (I have no other computer). Does this still hold true?
     
  13. Aug 27, 2011 #7973 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    Jan 4, 2003
    Still true. If you want to run wdidle3.exe to adjust the Intellipark setting you'll need to connect the hard drive directly to a SATA port on the motherboard or some have used a SATA PCI card.

    Not sure if you were planning on using the dual dock to upgrade by putting the OEM and new drive in as well, but that won't work either. You can use the dock, but only one drive in it will be recognized. You'd need an additional dock or SATA/USB adapter.
     
  14. Aug 28, 2011 #7974 of 10248
    teasip

    teasip Member

    521
    0
    Aug 24, 2002
    Thanks for the confirmation. I was able to cancel my online order for the WD HD after seeing your post. Next option will be to consider upgrading with one of our sponsors or just leave it at the OEM 160GB state.
     
  15. Aug 28, 2011 #7975 of 10248
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,080
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    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    I'm mostly with richsadams here except I would definitely go with the WD20EARS. Both Newegg and Amazon have it for $70, free shipping.

    if you use JMFS, the 1.26TB limit doesn't apply. 2.11TB is the limit. That's right kiddies, for TiVos, 2.11TB is the new 137GB, except you can't even use a drive > 2.11TB.:eek:

    Note that while you need to do the actual upgrade with JMFS, you must use WinMFS to Supersize it.

    As to what Supersize is - the following is from the first post of this thread:

    What does the "MfsSupersize" option do?

    By default, roughly 10% of the internal drive is reserved for "tivoclips" -- video advertisements that are downloaded to the TiVo. If you use the MfsSupersize option on an internal drive upgrade, then only 10GB will be reserved for advertisements and the rest of the space is recovered for use with recordings.

    Without MfsSupersize, a 1TB drive will add ~144 HD hours. With MfsSupersize, a 1TB drive will add ~157 HD hours.

    There are no known ill effects associated with the Supersize option. In fact, TiVo appears to use that option on its own TivoHD XL (1TB) to provide 157 HD hours.

     
  16. Aug 28, 2011 #7976 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    OR...you could use this Hitachi 2TB drive to upgrade your TiVo HD instead...

    http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Desks...SGO0/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1314513181&sr=8-1

    Although it's new several folks here have successfully upgraded their TiVo's with it.

    The 1TB version is an option as well (but I'd go w/2TB since the cost is only a few dollars more)...

    http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Desks...7?s=electronics&ie=UTF8&qid=1314513670&sr=1-7

    That would eliminate adjusting anything as Hitachi's don't use "Intellipark" and the AAM (Auto Acoustic Management) can't be changed (the audio specs are about equal to the TiVo OEM drive).

    The jmfs program will work the same...

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=462179

    Problem solved?
     
  17. Aug 28, 2011 #7977 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Since the OP already knows how to use winMFS that shouldn't be an issue.
     
  18. Aug 28, 2011 #7978 of 10248
    ccrider2

    ccrider2 New Member

    100
    0
    Nov 1, 2007
    This quote is from a response to an OP that has a TiVoHD; Does this also apply to a TiVo S3? ....Fingers crossed.
    Prices are down and I'm three years on my current Seagate 1TB upgrade.....Just looking to the near future.

    Thanks,
     
  19. Aug 28, 2011 #7979 of 10248
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,080
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    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    I don't believe you can use JMFS for a TiVo 3, so the limit* still applies

    * The limit for a TiVo 3 is apparently a bit higher: 1.35GB.
     
  20. Aug 28, 2011 #7980 of 10248
    lpwcomp

    lpwcomp Active Member

    8,080
    2
    May 6, 2002
    John's...
    I know he does. And I know the caveat is in the instructions for using JMFS to upgrade a THD. I just wanted to make he sure he was aware of it.
     

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