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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Sep 11, 2010 #6441 of 10248
    cbad

    cbad New Member

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    Jan 19, 2009
    Carlsbad, CA
    First, thank you for this incredible thread. I upgraded a hard drive after a crash and thanks to your step-by-steps, it was easy and went without a hitch. Well, until the TW guy tried to re-pair the cablecards, then it all went south...

    Anyway, now I have a Series 3 with only one tuner (one slot got damaged). What I want to do is swap my new, cool large drive from my S3 to one of my TivoHDs with a small drive.

    It was suggested elsewhere that I could use winMFS to create backup images for each drive, and then swap the destination drive when I restore them. It was also suggested I double check that here first. :) Sounds perfect and pretty easy, but I have a couple of questions:

    1. When I restore the image from my small drive onto the large one, will it be smart enough to know there is a lot more space on the larger drive and be able to use it?

    2. It looks like it will remember the cable card settings too. Did I get that right? I'd love to have a solution where I don't have to have TW back to mess with cards.

    Thanks!
     
  2. Sep 11, 2010 #6442 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Sorry to hear about the cable card incident...how frustrating! Is there any hope for your Series3? You might be able to get TiVo to swap it out for a price...and based on posts if you're a good customer (long-term, multiple TiVo's, etc.) the price might be negotiable.

    If I'm reading your post right, you want to use your 1TB drive in your TiVo HD now correct? If so you would just start from scratch just as you did when you upgraded your Series3, following all of the steps on the FAQ. Since you'll be using your TiVo HD's hard drive to create an image for the new drive, yes your cable card info, Season Passes, etc. will remain intact. You can even save your recordings by following the full copy and restore procedure if want.

    If you're thinking you can "save" anything from your 1TB drive, unfortunately, no that won't work. One because you can't swap images from one model (Series3) to another (TiVo HD) and two because winMFS will automatically format the new drive.

    If you have recordings on your Series3 that you'd like to save you can use TiVo Desktop or another program like KMTTG to transfer (non copy protected) recordings from it to your computer and then back again to the upgraded TiVo HD later.

    Probably not exactly what you wanted to hear, but hope that helps!
     
  3. Sep 11, 2010 #6443 of 10248
    ThreeSoFar

    ThreeSoFar FourNow...WaitFive

    5,419
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    May 24, 2002
    Baltimore
    Prices on 1TBs are as low as $55 or so, shipped. One at Dell was posted this week sometime in this thread.

    Are you sure you don't want to leave the HDTiVO as is and just upgrade the drive in the S3?

    Also, FYI, your S3 is still usable with both tuners, but only if you do NOT put any cableCARDs in it. It will record HD via the antenna, as well (both tuners). Of course, you won't get the pay/HD content via cable that way.

    We have a single M (multistream) card in our two HDTiVos, and our two S3's are cable only, and one of those OTA. The fall season's just ramping up--I hope four HD tuners at a time is enough to avoid conflicts (we record a lot, obv.)

     
  4. Sep 11, 2010 #6444 of 10248
    Robbdoe1

    Robbdoe1 Tivo Obsessed

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    Dec 29, 2008
    Melbourne, FL
    I told you he knew his stuff :D.
    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?t=455418
    Rich is the man.

    Robb
     
  5. Sep 11, 2010 #6445 of 10248
    cbad

    cbad New Member

    49
    0
    Jan 19, 2009
    Carlsbad, CA
    Actually, it's great advice and I can handle the truth. :) But I'm not sure I explained what I'm trying to do very clearly, so let me try once more...

    1. I want to swap drives between Tivos. I know I can't do it by just swapping the drives directly.

    2. I have a 1TB drive in my S3, and whatever in my TivoHD.

    3. I'll use winMFS to save an image on my computer for each drive.

    4. I'll restore the image from my TivoHD on the 1TB drive, and then put that into my TivoHD. Note that is where the switch is occurring.

    5. I'll restore the image from my S3 on the smaller drive, and then put that into my S3. Same kind of switch.

    6. So now the only difference is the size of the drive. The right OS and drivers should be correct for each Tivo. Even the cablecard info should right. After all, the drives are generic, it's the info on them that makes the difference.

    Of course, I assuming a lot by the above, but it seems reasonable.

    So my question is, does the image also contain all the information about the drive volume size or will it adapt and allow the extra space on the larger drive to be used?

    It kind of seems like it should work, but maybe you all have been through something like this before and see the error in my thinking.

    Thanks!
     
  6. Sep 11, 2010 #6446 of 10248
    cbad

    cbad New Member

    49
    0
    Jan 19, 2009
    Carlsbad, CA
    Haha, yep I've been a Tivo guy since the start, but haven't customized one till I saw your advice. Should have done it long ago. I still have my Series 1 in the garage which drives my wife crazy, but it really did change TV for me, so I'm not ready to part with it!

    The S3 in question has my original lifetime sub from my S1 (cost me $100 back then). So I'm trying to keep it going without paying another upgrade until I really need it.

    Thanks!
     
  7. Sep 11, 2010 #6447 of 10248
    S3-2501

    S3-2501 New Member

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    Jun 2, 2007
    A relative of mine was getting worried that her DVR expander would be failing soon, so I offered to help her upgrade her internal drive. She got a WD10EVDS from Amazon, manufactured on 7/26/10. After divorcing her expander, copying her old drive to the WD10EVDS, expanding, supersizing,etc. it booted up fine, and passed a soft menu reboot as well. Her original drive had the latest software, 11.0h

    I also checked the aam setting on the drive and can confirm that these drives are set at 128 out of the box.

    I hope this data point proves useful! These AV-dedicated drives are less than $80 on Amazon now, and with the apparent lack of intellipark issues with the combination of recent builds and the 11.0h software, I wouldn't hesitate to recommend these drives to anyone looking to upgrade right now!
     
  8. Sep 12, 2010 #6448 of 10248
    ThreeSoFar

    ThreeSoFar FourNow...WaitFive

    5,419
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    May 24, 2002
    Baltimore
    Change TV for you?

    More than that. Changed your life. Mine, anyway.

    My Dad was born in 1927, died in 2004, but not before I got him hooked on TiVo.

    "It's the best thing ever." That's what he said.

     
  9. Sep 12, 2010 #6449 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Ah, okay, good info. With respect to upgrading/restoring your TiVo HD's image to the 1TB hard drive using winMFS and the standard upgrade procedure, yes that s/b fine. In other words, the process would be the same no matter where the 1TB drive came from (winMFS will format the 1TB drive, and you'll expand the TiVo HD's partitions and such as normal).

    Where I think you will run into trouble with a capital "T" is trying to restore your Series3's image to the TiVo HD's drive...I say I think because I've never heard of anyone doing that...basically downgrading using an upgraded image. I'm almost certain that you have to use an original (non-expanded) TiVo image because images from upgraded TiVo's won't work on subsequent upgrades...and I would think "downgrades". Also keep in mind that your Series3 came with a 250GB hard drive as opposed to your TiVo HD which has a 160GB hard drive. I don't think even an original Series3 image will be able to deal with that.

    Sooo...here is what I would do if I were you: leave your Series3 alone. The 1TB drive inside already has some miles on it and what you're looking to do may or may not work. Pony up for a 1TB hard drive. Dell has them on sale for $55 but I see they are OOS at the moment, however Newegg has them for $59.99 through the 15th or you could go with a WD10EVDS from Amazon for $78 and as S3-2501 suggests probably skip dealing with the Intellipark and AAM adjustments. Use that brand spanking new drive to upgrade your TiVo HD the old fashioned way and you're back in business. Since you're an old hand at it, it'll be a breeze.

    It's the old "if it ain't broke, don't fix it until it is" approach (to paraphrase my good friend MPSAN).

    BTW, I'd still see what TiVo can do for you with respect to exchanging your Series3...providing you have the original hard drive that is.

    Let us know how things go and happy, um, upgrading, sort of. ;)

    BTW, I also have our Series1 (dual drive upgrade!) and a couple of Series 2's in our garage...just can't give them up! :)
     
  10. Sep 12, 2010 #6450 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    You said it brother! :up: :up: :up:
     
  11. Sep 12, 2010 #6451 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Those are very good data points indeed. Thanks very much. :up:
     
  12. Sep 12, 2010 #6452 of 10248
    DCIFRTHS

    DCIFRTHS I dumped SDV / cable

    2,119
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    Jan 6, 2000
    New York
    Is the FAQ was up to date regarding the WD drives? I am somewhat confused because I know that the Intellipark feature was causing some problems, and the FAQ currently reflects that information, but it seems that some recent posts suggest that the latest WD drive are compatible with the new TiVo software.

    Any info / links would be greatly appreciated.

    Thanks!
     
  13. Sep 12, 2010 #6453 of 10248
    cbad

    cbad New Member

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    Jan 19, 2009
    Carlsbad, CA
    OK, you convinced me. I've got the drive coming from NewEgg. 5400rpm doesn't cause performance problems for Tivo, right?

    It'll be a luxury having all that extra space anyway. :)

    Thanks!
     
  14. Sep 12, 2010 #6454 of 10248
    cbad

    cbad New Member

    49
    0
    Jan 19, 2009
    Carlsbad, CA
    Haha, that's more like it. It allowed TV to revolve around my life, rather than the other way around. That's the way it should be!
     
  15. Sep 12, 2010 #6455 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    No 5400 RPM issues at all...hundreds of WD GP drives are successfully being used in TiVo's (including all of yours truly's :) ).

    More space....gooooood. ;)
     
  16. Sep 12, 2010 #6456 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    It is a little confusing right now. I think bkdtv is wise not to update the FAQ until the dust fully settles with regard to recommended Western Digital hard drives. As you pointed out, the Intellipark "feature" is the fly in the ointment of a list of very good drive upgrade options.

    In a nutshell, probably the most often used drive for upgrades now is the WD10EARS since it's so plentiful in the marketplace and the cost is hovering around $50 or $60 on sale. They are preforming fine, but as you note there is an inconsistency with the Intellipark feature and the soft reboot issue. Depending on the manufacture date some seem to not need any adjustments to it at all; a menu restart is successful as long as the TiVo in question has the latest OS (v11.0h) installed. Others have had to adjust the timeout or disable it before they could avoid a soft reboot hang and yet others have had to adjust Intellipark before TiVo would even boot up properly. So at the moment there's no clear line of delineation, at least based on the drive's manufacture date, as to which ones will work without issue and which ones won't. It seems that some/most manufactured after the first week in August this year don't need to be tweaked, but again, there's not enough feedback to state that without equivocation. The same goes for other WD GP drive models on the market.

    It also appears that WD's A/V dedicated line of hard drives, WD10EVxx, manufactured after July 1 or so do not need the Intellipark "feature" adjusted. However again, there's not enough information to easily make that claim.

    So the jury is still out on which WD GP drives can be relied upon without any tweaks...at least for now. More feedback/datapoints are always appreciated.

    A number of folks here are successfully using an alternative to the WD drives, Hitachi's Deskstar 7K1000.C HD31000 IDK/7K. (Note it needs to be that particular model as their standard drives are much nosier.)
     
  17. Sep 12, 2010 #6457 of 10248
    ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay

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    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    My THD is experiencing freeze-ups this AM, and now in process of divorcing the 500 mg expander. Went to Best Buy and bought a 10EAVS, Green, 18-mar-2010.

    I will put in the new drive later on.


    Lost all my America's got Talent, 14 episodes, and a This Old House episode that I wanted in HD format.:(

    Edit: Seems like the Expander was the problem; since the divorce, the THD has normalized, for now.

    Does anyone know how much HD space a Win MFS backup would occupy, with Settings?
     
  18. Sep 12, 2010 #6458 of 10248
    Robbdoe1

    Robbdoe1 Tivo Obsessed

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    Dec 29, 2008
    Melbourne, FL
    I pulled the trigger on this drive today from the Egg. They did price match for me Amazons price. That allowed me to pay with Paypal and use a balance I just had sitting there. It never hurts to ask. I hope I have the same good results you had with this drive install.

    Robb
     
  19. Sep 12, 2010 #6459 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Sorry to hear about your "loss". How old was your Expander? That's really frustrating.

    A truncated backup is small. I just took a look at an old TiVo HD image backup and it's 441MB. I guess that's not small by old-school standards, but in the world of terabytes it's not very big in any case.
     
  20. Sep 12, 2010 #6460 of 10248
    ThAbtO

    ThAbtO TiVoholic by the bay

    6,739
    9
    Apr 6, 2000
    SF Bay Area
    Well, I got the THD in Oct '07 and I believe the expander a few months after that.

    I'm thinking about doing the backup first, then return the HD to the Tivo to use while I 'restore' to the EAVS. Also, to put the backup to DVD.
     

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