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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. May 28, 2010 #5901 of 10248
    cwerdna

    cwerdna Proud Tivolutionary

    9,819
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    Feb 22, 2001
    SF Bay Area, CA
    Awhile ago, I found out one of my coworkers has a Tivo HD and was complaining about how flaky the eSATA connection was with his Expander. He talked about it being loose and how he'd sometimes receive the External Storage Missing message. Because of the above, he characterized TiVo as the most unreliable consumer device he's ever bought.

    Well, he's not active here on TC and didn't know about the recommended cables and supposedly crappy Expander stock ones.

    For me, on my Tivo HD, the stock cable WD supplied w/my 1 TB Expander isn't that loose and I've NEVER hit the External Storage Missing message. I bought the SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 (via http://www.walmart.com/ip/SIIG-eSATA-to-eSATA-cable-1m/10884515#ProductDetail, I believe) for good measure and used that, eventually. It seems to fit w/more friction and stay in better but it's not light years ahead, IMHO.

    I loaned him my stock WD cable and he said it was identical and just as loose. I loaned him my SIIG CB-SA0111-S1 and today he told me it fits much more securely. It seems like TiVo might've revved the connectors or perhaps they become looser over time? I believe his is older than mine. I got mine in Sept 09.
     
  2. May 28, 2010 #5902 of 10248
    Mahty

    Mahty Member

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    Jan 6, 2006

    I just bought a WD15EVDS (born on 01Apr2010) for my S3. After using WinMFS to copy to the new drive a truncated backup image of the S3's original and long-ago-retired WD 250GB drive, I performed the transplant. Initial tests showed that the WD15EVDS had the IntelliPark soft-reboot problem. :(

    However, that truncated image contained TiVo S/W version 8.0.1c. After updating the S/W on the new drive to the current 11.0g, the IntelliPark soft-reboot problem is gone! :)

    So, at least for the S3 (and I would imagine the THD, THDXL, etc.), it seems that 11.0g contains a fix for the WD IntelliPark soft-reboot problem. Has this officially been established by the TiVo Community?
     
  3. May 28, 2010 #5903 of 10248
    TooManyTimeZones

    TooManyTimeZones New Member

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    Dec 22, 2005
    I just wanted to thank the TIVO community for this great guide. For the last couple months, my TIVO-HD was randomly screwing up recordings; all of the signal levels looked ok, so I suspected that my hard drive was failing. I bought a 1TB Hitachi hard drive (~ $90 at Frys) and went to work.

    Everything went smoothly except for transferring my existing recordings. I expected this problem since some of the recordings on my drive were already screwed up; perhaps there are some bad sectors on the drive. Mfscopy would just stop working and the status bar wouldn't move. I tried it a couple of times, gave it a few hours to run, but there was no progress (and I have eSATA hookups and a fast PC).

    Anyway, I decided to just transfer the system and my settings instead; this worked just fine, with the entire operation completing in just a few minutes. I'm up and running.

    Thanks again!
    Keith
     
  4. May 29, 2010 #5904 of 10248
    yukit

    yukit Member

    206
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    Jul 23, 2005
    I just copied an image on a new (build date Feb 17, 2010) WD20EARS for a TivoHD, then updated it to 11.0g, but soft-boot failed to work.

    I guess I have to try disabling Intellipark on the drive. I will report back when I get around to do so over the weekend.
     
  5. May 29, 2010 #5905 of 10248
    Marconi

    Marconi TiVo Junkie

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    Sep 8, 2001
    Page, AZ USA
    You shouldn't need to. You ought to be able to reboot by pulling the plug. Then update to 11.0g. If 11.0g does indeed fix the Intellipark problem, you're in a great position to find out.
     
  6. May 29, 2010 #5906 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Thanks very much for the valuable feedback. :up:

    After a few posts now it appears that the latest TiVo S3 and THD/HDXL update (v11.0g) may have addressed the WD HDD Intellipark soft reboot issue.

    If you're upgrading your TiVo with a Western Digital GP hard drive, please take a moment to post your hard drive's manufacture date, your software version and let us know if you experience the soft reboot issue (hangs at Welcome screen from a menu restart). TIA!
     
  7. May 29, 2010 #5907 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Curious...did you use the 2TB "hacked" images? I've no idea if that would affect the Intellipark/update discussion or not, but let us know how it goes.
     
  8. May 29, 2010 #5908 of 10248
    shrike4242

    shrike4242 Member

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    Nov 30, 2006
    Saint Louis, MO
    After going back and forth with the DVR Expander and not being sure the situation with it being viable or not, I decided to go the WD10EVDS route with replacing the internal drive. I tested the expander twice with the WD diag tools and it passed both times. As you've said, the enclosure sometimes gets funny, and I'd rather not take a chance. Regardless, the DVR Expander came from Costco, so I could take it back there for a full refund, which is what I might do.

    I ordered that and a pair of BlacX drive docking stations to do the copy of the 160GB internal drive to the 1TB WD drive, the 1TB being connected via eSATA and the other drive via USB. The only "modern" PC I have is a HTPC in my basement and it only has one eSATA port that doesn't seem to work with port multiplication, so I have to do one with eSATA and one with USB. My old laptop with an add-in eSATA card has two eSATA ports on it, though I'm not sure if it would work with a 1TB drive or not.

    Only question I have is if the EVDS drive needs the IntelliPark disabled or not. From what I read earlier in the thread, it looks like not, though if anyone installed one recently and can comment, it would be appreciated.

    Regardless, it should be all be here by the end of this coming week, so it'll be a weekend project for next week. I'll let you know how it goes.
     
  9. May 29, 2010 #5909 of 10248
    yukit

    yukit Member

    206
    0
    Jul 23, 2005
    Yes, this is the 2TB image from Mr. B.
    The image had 11.0d software, so I updated it to 11.0g. I was hoping the soft-reboot issue was fixed, but maybe EARS drive works differently than the other GP drives, at least from Tivo's perspective. Oh well...
     
  10. May 29, 2010 #5910 of 10248
    Ovit311

    Ovit311 New Member

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    May 21, 2010
    Also using Mr. B image on a Hitachi 2TB HDS722020ALA330 Nov-2009. Everything works except I have to toggle the power cord (hard reboot) to get pass the "Welcome powering up" screen. No soft reboot problems, shows 318HD/2777SD hours. Set the AAM to 128, may have to return the drive.
     
  11. May 31, 2010 #5911 of 10248
    dmartin5454

    dmartin5454 New Member

    26
    0
    Feb 20, 2009
    Ft. Collins, CO
    I tried posting this over in the Tivo Upgrade Center forum, but haven't gotten any feedback. I hope folks don't mind me posting this here, since it is for a Series2, but I was hoping to catch a wider audience.
    I upgraded my Series2 a few years ago, replacing the original 40GB drive with an 80GB, and adding a 250GB drive. Now one (perhaps both?) are starting to make noise, so I figured I had better replace them before they go completely bad. I have a TivoHD that I upgraded the drive to a 1.5TB drive a few months ago, so this exercise is to keep the Series2 working as a secondary unit.
    I have read through a lot of postings looking for specific information that confirms that a 1TB SATA drive with the appropriate adapter can be used in the Series2 (mine is the 540040 model -- single tuner, with product lifetime service). I used the WD15EVDS drive for my Series3 upgrade, and used the wdidle3 utility to disable the Intellipark feature. I have been very happy with the results of that drive.
    Here are my questions:
    1. The FAQ states that the WD drives will not boot at all in the Series2. Is this due to the Intellipark feature, and if so, will disabling it allow the WD green drives to work in the Series2 units?
    2. I have seen conflicting information about the specific PATA to SATA adapter available from WOW Parts: http://www.wowparts.com/store/produc...304-01050.html. Can someone confirm if this adapter will or will not work in the Series2?
    3. Some folks have high opinions of the Hitachi 1TB Deskstar (HD31000) drive. Amazon has it for $69.99 + $2.95 shipping: http://www.amazon.com/Hitachi-Deskst.../dp/B002D5XY8A. Any pros & cons for the Hitachi over the WD green drives? (I would probably stick to a 1TB drive for the Series2.)
    I know that going from the two existing internal drives to the single drive will mean I can't save my recordings, but I'll try to transfer the recordings I absolutely need to keep to my Series3 before I upgrade.
    If you can think of any other things I need to be aware of or offer any advice, I would appreciate it!
     
  12. May 31, 2010 #5912 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Thanks for that. Then it may be that only WD GP drives manufactured sometime in March and thereafter no longer exhibit the soft reboot issue or whatever TiVo may have done in v11.0g only works on those drives? Ugh. So far it looks like there's no empirical evidence to rely on.

    Hopefully folks that are upgrading will continue to post their WD drive's manufacture dates and whether or not the soft reboot issue continues to be a problem (w/v11.0g) or not. That would require installing (or at least connecting) the upgraded drive to TiVo prior to disabling the Intellipark feature and trying a menu restart to see if it hangs at the "Welcome" screen. It would be great to be able to recommend the WD GP drives manufactured after "X date", but only time and some additional data points will be the key to doing that. TIA TiVo Pioneers!
     
  13. May 31, 2010 #5913 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    So on the first power-up, every time, TiVo hangs on the "Welcome" screen? I don't think anyone else has had that issue or at least posted about it. Might be the drive, might be something else. Good info though.

    Also that particular drive is too noisy even with the AAM set to 128 then? Is your TiVo in a very quiet setting (bedroom, etc.) or is it unacceptable even in a "normal" situation? Whatever the case, that's also good info. If you do replace it with the same model it would be valuable to know if you happened to receive a faulty drive or if they are all too noisy to use in TiVo. TIA.
     
  14. May 31, 2010 #5914 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    One of the toughest things on a hard drive (besides heat) is to power it on and off repeatedly. The power surge required to spin the platters up to full speed can take its toll. There is also added opportunity for data corruption during power on/off. However in today's drives it's much less of an issue than in days gone by. Most hard drive experts still say that the ideal situation is to leave a drive powered on though.

    Opening the enclosure will void the warranty of course but the method used to connect two drives using dd to make an exact copy isn't so much the issue, it's being able to use dd. It's not terribly hard but if you don't have some Unix/Linux experience (or a computer set up to run it) it might be best to have someone else give it a try. There are lots of geeks to be found on Craigslist and elsewhere that could probably do it for you pretty cheap.

    Doubtful and even if there were significant changes it wouldn't affect your goal. The only thing you're concerned with is the model number which is what TiVo recognizes and that would be the same and the data on the drive. Assuming you could get an exact data copy made, your recordings (or at least the data contained on the Expander) would be the same as well.

    Ugh. There are a number of variables when it comes to transferring recordings from TiVo to a computer. It could be the recordings themselves. If there is some data corruption TiVo can often overcome them but transfers can fail. Many times folks will play back the problematic recording on TiVo and just about where the transfer fails there is some sort of glitch (macroblocking, audio dropout, etc.) on the recording. It could have something to do with the size or the antivirus software issue that others have mentioned. It could even be something to do with TiVo Desktop. A number of folks here are using a third-party program called KMTTG in lieu of TiVo Desktop with more favorable transfer outcomes. Since I have Macs TiVo Desktop for Mac is somewhat limited so I'm using iTiVo and PyTiVoX, but I've used KMTTG and it works quite well so you might want to give it a shot.

    Hope you get your mom's TiVo back up and running...it sounds like she really enjoys it!
     
  15. May 31, 2010 #5915 of 10248
    hmm52

    hmm52 New Member

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    Feb 25, 2008
    Lower...
    I've used a 750GB Seagate DB35 externally since I purchased an S3 in January 2008. It gave me warnings that all was not right - random reboots on average once a week. More so recently. When it previously got stuck in a reboot loop on occasion, a hard reset/reboot would nudge it forward. Last week it wouldn't advance past "a few minutes more" regardless. Timing not the best as I'm recording much of the French Open.

    For expediency I divorced the drives and regained use of the TiVo. Loss of recordings annoying but not earth shattering. For the time being a WD 640GB borrowed from a desktop is connected externally. The DB35 quickly failed all tests except for S.M.A.R.T. and was accepted for warranty replacement -now on its way.

    My question is whether or not to use the replacement as anything more than a backup. I don't know what Seagate gives you under warranty exchange or if there are clearly better choices at this time. AFAIK there's nothing wrong with the S3 HDD, but it's going on 3 years now. If you've got a good one, keep it in use? Through this recent exercize, I found out that 250GB is woefully inadequate. One TB total capacity is adequate for my habits however.

    Any advice and expertise would be greatly appreciated.


    ---Poor sounding fan in MX 1 case should also be remedied now if I retain an external drive. It hasn't sounded that well from the beginning. Inattentiveness....
     
  16. May 31, 2010 #5916 of 10248
    Mahty

    Mahty Member

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    0
    Jan 6, 2006
    I tried "clearing and deleting everything" on a new expanded drive for my S3, but the process seems to hang. Is there a known issue with running the C&DE command on an expanded drive (what with the added partitions and all)?

    Also, can I do an MFSadd after the fact? I ask because I think I'll redo the upgrade process again, but with the C&DE attempt performed earlier. Specifically, I'll copy my trusty old S3-original truncated backup image to my new drive, install the drive in my S3, run the C&DE on this non-expanded drive, and, if successful, remove the C&DE'd drive and expand it using the MFSadd and supersize commands. Sound reasonable?
     
  17. May 31, 2010 #5917 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    I've always been of the mind that the fewer the failure points the better. Have you considered upgrading the internal hard drive (per the instructions on the first post of this FAQ)? If you're comfortable connecting a hard drive to a computer it's really quite easy. A brand new 1TB hard drive can be had for under $75 these days...sometimes less. Put the original hard drive on the shelf as a backup and you're golden. That's the way I would go, but your call of course.

    BTW...that shouldn't be confused with "expert advice". Keep in mind that you get what you pay for here. ;)
     
  18. May 31, 2010 #5918 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    That sounds reasonable, but I'm not clear as to why you want to run CD&E. If you do you'll need to re-pair your cable cards, etc. because CD&E will essentially put you back to a brand new TiVo image.

    I guess I'm confused as to what you're trying to accomplish. If you use your original TiVo HDD to image your existing (or even a new drive) using winMFS, the drive will be reformatted/expanded, etc. using your original image. Or is that not what you want to do?
     
  19. May 31, 2010 #5919 of 10248
    Ovit311

    Ovit311 New Member

    12
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    May 21, 2010
    That's right, first power-up every time. Took me about 7 hours to figure it out as this is my very first upgrade. It's in a bedroom setting and I can still hear it with an AAM of 128. I should point out the drive runs very hot, too hot to hold.

    It may just turn out to be a defective drive, it's going back tomorrow. I noticed (TivoHD) that within the first minute if the green led didn't toggle (off then on) followed by the yellow led toggle (on then off) it needed a quick power toggle (hard boot) to boot properly. The only difference the platters are already spinning?

    Another user with an identical setup to mine reported success. This time I'll try a WD GP drive.


    I already ordered a WD20EVDS. I'll try that drive first without disabling the Intellipark feature. If it works would it still be necessary to monitor the load cycle count? Or just go ahead and disable it to prevent future premature failure?
     
  20. May 31, 2010 #5920 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    All good info. :up: The WD20EVDS should work well. It's an A/V dedicated drive so about as quiet as they come. Hopefully it'll be quiet enough for your bedroom. If it boots up after a menu restart w/o disabling Intellisync it s/b good going forward. TIA for the additional info when you have it!
     

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