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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Apr 25, 2010 #5661 of 10248
    Marconi

    Marconi TiVo Junkie

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    Sep 8, 2001
    Page, AZ USA
    I've searched the upgrade FAQ and don't see any mention of whether the TiVo HD models use SATA I or SATA II drives. Looking at the original WD drive from my THD, it has a jumper block but the label mentions only adding a jumper to Power Up In Standby. Most SATA II drives include instructions for adding a jumper to limit the drive to SATA I speeds, where the application requires it. So far then, the original WD1600AVVS looks like a SATA I device. So...

    Looking at WD's description of the WD1600AVVS I see that WD says only that it requires a SATA connection. Clicking the WD Interface Guide link, takes you to a page that says that SATA drives have a 150 or 300 Mbps data rate. No help there as they don't distinguish SATA I from II.

    Of course, even if the WD1600AVVS is a SATA I device, that does not necessarily mean that THD cannot handle SATA II drives; its controller may in fact be SATA II.

    The bottom line is this: should an upgrade SATA II drive put into a THD have the jumper installed limiting it to SATA I speeds? It would be handy if the FAQ mentioned this.
     
  2. Apr 25, 2010 #5662 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    The simple answer would be no. (I think you'd be hard pressed to find a computer that requires a "throttle down" to 1.5Gb/s data throughput these days.)

    Stick with any of the recommended drives on the FAQ, follow the upgrade directions to the letter and you'll be good to go. Happy upgrading! :up:
     
  3. Apr 25, 2010 #5663 of 10248
    Marconi

    Marconi TiVo Junkie

    444
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    Sep 8, 2001
    Page, AZ USA
    The FAQ itself is for Series 3 DVRs. My sister has failing drives in her Series 2 DVR. Will the same SATA drives recommended for Series 3 boxes work in the Series 2 boxes (with a PATA to SATA adapter, of course)?
     
  4. Apr 25, 2010 #5664 of 10248
    jlib

    jlib Lean Forward

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    Nov 21, 2002
    Carmel...
  5. Apr 25, 2010 #5665 of 10248
    MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

    1,194
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    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    Well, the WD spec does show SATA II for the WD1600AVVS...

    Performance Specifications
    Rotational Speed IntelliPower *
    Buffer Size 8 MB
    Transfer Rates
    Buffer To Host (Serial ATA) 3 Gb/s (Max)
    Physical Specifications
    Formatted Capacity 160,041 MB
    Capacity 160 GB
    Interface SATA 3 Gb/s
    User Sectors Per Drive 312,581,808
     
  6. Apr 25, 2010 #5666 of 10248
    jppowers

    jppowers New Member

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    Feb 16, 2010
    As I have not posted the resiquite 5 times, I can not use the PM feature. Is there another way to obtain the image?

    Joe P
     
  7. Apr 25, 2010 #5667 of 10248
    rxrepli

    rxrepli New Member

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    Sep 5, 2008
    Today I was preparing to open the TiVo and remove the drive so I could run wdidle3 /S300. Since I was not looking forward to disconnecting everything, I thought it would be best to try doing a soft reboot just to see if the TiVo now running the 11.0g software for a week had magically fixed itself.

    To my surprise, the TiVo rebooted normally! It DID NOT hang upon restart. To be sure this was not an anomaly, I did a menu restart a second time, and again the TiVo restarted normally. Before sharing this news I did a third menu restart, and as twice before it did not hang and restarted perfectly.

    At this time I might be the only person who did not run wdidle3 before installing the WD20EVDS drive with the IntelliPark fully enabled. Based on this experience, I believe the Western Digital "Green" drives are fully compatible with the TiVoHD after it receives the 11.0g software update.

    Maybe when others can replicate my findings, bkdtv can update the FAQ to reflect this.

    To those who want to use the WD drives, I hope this makes you more comfortable. To bkdtv thank you for all your efforts here, to richsadams thank you for all of your support, and to spike thank you for WinMFS.

    Now off to enjoy my Supersized TiVo!
     
  8. Apr 25, 2010 #5668 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Hi Joe and welcome to the forum. Which image are you looking for?
     
  9. Apr 25, 2010 #5669 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Congrats on your upgrade! Unfortunately a few others have tried upgrading using WD GP drives w/o disabling the Intellipark feature (after receiving v11.0g) and were not successful...they still had the soft reboot problem. So a blanket recommendation wouldn't be prudent at this point.

    However AFAIK you're the first to try it with a 2TB drive, so the drive itself may have something to do with it, the "hacked" 2TB image or something else, it's hard to tell. Did you happen to keep track of your drive's manufacture date? It's possible WD themselves have done something to remedy the situation making newer drives compatible (w/o any tweaking) again.

    Hopefully some more pioneers will give some of the newest WD 1TB (and larger) hard drives a try before disabling Intellipark to see if v11.0g has any effect on the soft reboot issue or if it's just 2TB drives (or the 2TB image).

    Thanks very much for the valuable info. :up: Now go enjoy your "new/supersized" TiVo!
     
  10. Apr 26, 2010 #5670 of 10248
    rxrepli

    rxrepli New Member

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    Sep 5, 2008
    Rich,

    Going into this I thought I would need to run IntelliPark so I did not write down any specific drive information before putting the TiVo back together. However, I did make note of the build date, March 2010. Thanks again.
     
  11. Apr 26, 2010 #5671 of 10248
    trunksy

    trunksy New Member

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    Apr 26, 2010
    Why don't you still show the Cinemastar 7K1000 (model HCS721010KLA330) as discontinued? It looks like it has been removed completely without any notes as to why it was removed like the WD Eco Green drives which have an admonishment not to buy them. You can still buy them from many online retailers including newegg.com or buy.com.

    I would prefer to buy the most recent version of the drive, the Cinemastar 7K1000.C (model HCS721010KLA332) but I haven't been able to find those for sale except on a Chinese website.

    It looks like newer versions of the drives are only being sold directly to manufacturers and integrators only but I'm hoping some online retailers might be able to get their hands on them if there's a knowledge and consequently desire by customers to purchase them.
     
  12. Apr 26, 2010 #5672 of 10248
    Marconi

    Marconi TiVo Junkie

    444
    0
    Sep 8, 2001
    Page, AZ USA
    I'm not so sure this test tells all there is to know.

    I have two THDs that both pass this software restart test, though one had a WD10EVVS (19 September, 2009) drive and the other had a WD10EVDS.

    These DVRs tend to suffer the GSAS (Green Screen And Screech) crash within seconds of each other. I noted that on two occasions, one would reboot by itself, the other would not. I noted too that on a couple of occasions, THD1 would crash by itself and it would not reboot automatically; I had to pull the plug.

    Just yesterday, I switched to a Seagate Pipeline 1 TB drive, replacing the WD10EVVS that had been in it. This morning, that DVR crashed and rebooted itself. Coincidence? Is it Just One Of Those Things or did changing the drive (which passes the software reboot test) to a Seagate allow it to reboot?

    I don't know. But I'll be watching to see whether subsequent crashes are followed by reboots with the Seagate Pipeline drive in this DVR.
     
  13. Apr 26, 2010 #5673 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
    2
    Jan 4, 2003
    Good info. :up:

    So for those that follow...possibly WD GP hard drives manufactured after X date March 2010 may not need the Intellipark "feature" disabled. (I think we can assume everyone with a TiVo Series3 or TiVo HD/HDXL has received v11.0g by now.)

    FUTURE UPGRADERS: If you are going to upgrade your TiVo Series3 or TiVo HD/HDXL using a Western Digital GP (green) hard drive your help is needed. If the drive was manufactured sometime in March 2010 or later and is 1TB or greater, try performing the upgrade and installing it w/o disabling Intellipark (running wdidle.exe). Then try a soft reboot (menu restart) and let us know if it hangs on the "Welcome! Powering up..." screen. Posting your results will be very valuable to those that follow.

    Everyone's help would be appreciated because I know I'd like to see these drives go back in the "fully recommended" category myself!
     
  14. Apr 26, 2010 #5674 of 10248
    bkdtv

    bkdtv New Member

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    Jan 9, 2003
    DC Metro Area
    The TiVoHD's Broadcom chip has a SATA-I interface, but it makes no difference, because SATA drives autodetect SATA-I or SATA-2 and switch as appropriate. Some older drives and controllers had a problem with that, hence the switch, but that is unnecessary on the newer drives and the TiVo.

    SATA-II drives work fine in the TiVo HD.

    At the time the change was made, I did not see the drive for sale any longer. I re-added that drive to the list.

    Several people have asked me to add a download link and/or information on Mr. Broflovski's hacked image to the FAQ. Forum management does not allow download links to the TiVo software, or specific discussion of hacked software. Hence, I'm not certain how to handle that subject in the first post.
     
  15. Apr 26, 2010 #5675 of 10248
    lew

    lew Active Member

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    Mar 12, 2002

    The forum allowed discussion about, and links to, the zipper. Discussion about superpatch. I'd call that hacked software. I was surprised TCF allowed such discussion. I'm not sure where TCF draws the line.
     
  16. Apr 26, 2010 #5676 of 10248
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

    8,893
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    Jan 4, 2003
    Hi Marconi. Based on this and some of your other posts (and remedies we've discussed) I think you have other issues (signal, etc.) and that the reboots you're experiencing have nothing to do with whichever drive you have, the soft reboot issue or otherwise. That you're still experiencing reboots with a Seagate drive Vs a WD tends to confirm that. Reboots (outside of updates) are never "normal".
     
  17. Apr 26, 2010 #5677 of 10248
    donnoh

    donnoh Member

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    Mar 7, 2008
    I also used the WD20EVDS drive with a March build date and the Broflovski image but did run wdidle3 on it before I did anything else. Maybe I'm imagining things but I thought I read on here somewhere that the Tivo HDXL works ok on WD drives without running wdidle3. Since the Broflovski image uses parts of the XL software that may explain it.

    Once again I'm not sure if I read this about the XL or my mind is playing tricks on me. It would be nice to know if someone does a 1TB upgrade without running wdidle3 if it soft boots ok.
     
  18. Apr 26, 2010 #5678 of 10248
    Marconi

    Marconi TiVo Junkie

    444
    0
    Sep 8, 2001
    Page, AZ USA
    I think you missed the point of my post.

    The soft reboot issue is very much drive dependent, agreed? I'm just saying that passing the test (restarting DVR through the settings menu) does not seem to be the sole predictor of whether you'll need to pull the plug to reboot.

    I never said or even hinted that the drive was causing the crashes. Those are obviously other problems. But, it does appear, to me, that the THD with the Seagate Pipeline is more likely to automatically reboot following a crash than when it had the WD10EVVS that passed the soft reboot test.

    I believe the WD10EVVS was, despite having passed the soft reboot test, preventing auto-reboot.
     
  19. Apr 26, 2010 #5679 of 10248
    MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

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    Jun 20, 2009
    Portland,...
    The >1gb image links can not be made public per the agreement that was needed before the download link(s) were given. Just sayin...
     
  20. Apr 26, 2010 #5680 of 10248
    lew

    lew Active Member

    3,963
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    Mar 12, 2002
    No problem. There is no logic to what's allowed in TCF. I didn't realize there was an agreement. Bkdtv doesn't want to put the link in his "sticky". I thought the issue was still open.
     

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