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Drive Expansion and Drive Upgrade FAQ

Discussion in 'TiVo Series3 HDTV DVRs' started by bkdtv, Oct 19, 2007.

  1. Mar 6, 2010 #5181 of 10284
    bciocco

    bciocco Member

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    Mar 28, 2009
    Thanks that's good info. It actually helps me lean more toward the Hitachi because a little figuring things out on the front end will pay off by making it quieter in the long run. I would rather have the drive be quiet than try to mask the noise.
     
  2. Mar 6, 2010 #5182 of 10284
    justen_m

    justen_m Cheesehead

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    Boise, ID
    The AAM mod for the Hitatchi using HDDScan literally takes less than a minute. The drive is already hooked up, as you just restored your original backup to it. The program itself is a 1.7mb free download. So the entire download/install/run sequence might take 2 minutes, unless you are on dial-up. Pretty painless, as long as you do it _before_ you actually install the new drive in your Tivo. ;)
     
  3. Mar 6, 2010 #5183 of 10284
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    Well, that's a good question. I also read the same thing on the MFSLive.org Forum back in December or so. But IIRC there are several folks here that are using them without any issues. I don't have time, but you might want to do a quick search and see what you can find out...or maybe those folks will chime in.
     
  4. Mar 7, 2010 #5184 of 10284
    dt100

    dt100 New Member

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    Found it: "Members should avoid the Western Digital WDxxEARS, as they have a unique 4KB physical sector and the TiVo was designed for use on drives with a traditional 512 Byte physical sector." (From first post)
     
  5. Mar 7, 2010 #5185 of 10284
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    So far two members have successfully upgraded their TiVo HD's with the WD10EARS drives:

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7720023#post7720023

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7736641#post7736641

    The first member followed up about a week later saying that all is well.

    It's been more than a month and we'd probably hear about any issues they had, but perhaps they will confirm things are still good?

    However another member is having a problem with his upgrade. It would appear to be a bad sector issue on his original hard drive (he can't get it to fully copy a backup to his new WD10EARS drive) and nothing to do with the EARS model, but you never know.

    http://www.tivocommunity.com/tivo-vb/showthread.php?p=7801302#post7801302
     
  6. Mar 7, 2010 #5186 of 10284
    rainbow

    rainbow Member

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    Feb 7, 2008
    Well, it appears to me that I might have bought the wrong thing to do up Series 3 internal drive upgrade.

    I ordered the adapter a couple of wks ago. I finally received the 1T hard drive (WDEVCS) yesterday. I can't see any way of attaching this thiing to the HD. The box does say cable. The sales receipt does, however, say it is a 'cable adepter converter w/auto backup button full power supply.'

    Does anyone have a link, or some words of wisdom, of how one is supposed to actually hook this up? There aren't any good instructions included on how this works...

    I had planned to using my laptop to get the hard drive done (no desktops for me).

    Guess I should have gone the way of a docking station instead. Very frustrating. I am fairly intuitive, but this thing doesn'tmake sense to me!

    This is a photo of what I bought

    [​IMG]

    link is here: http://www.amazon.com/Serial-ATA-Ad...?ie=UTF8&s=electronics&qid=1268000196&sr=8-13
     
  7. Mar 7, 2010 #5187 of 10284
    innocentfreak

    innocentfreak Active Member

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    Aug 25, 2001
    Florida
    Do you have a link to what you bought? Also does it connect to the drive or possible the IDE/Sata cable you would connect to the drive?
     
  8. Mar 7, 2010 #5188 of 10284
    aaronwt

    aaronwt UHD Addict

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    Northern...
    What manufature dates are OK for the WD 1TB green drives? I have some old ones I want to swap around before I start selling my TiVoHD units.
     
  9. Mar 7, 2010 #5189 of 10284
    MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

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    You should have the power supply and a cable/adapter that will connect to the new SATA power connector. ALSO, you should have a cable with a USB on 1 end and another adapter to go to either an IDE or SATA connector on the new drive. In your case it will be the SATA signal connector.The AMAZON link shows all of this. To the RIGHT of the "backup button" is the SATA connector. You may need to use a short SATA to SATA cable to attach it to the new HD, but I think it, too, is supplied. In fact, it looks like that is what the cable is on the right of YOUR photo. I believe that the cable to the left of that is a converter for the output of the power supply. It may be an older IDE molex type connector and so you would use the short molex to sata PS converter.
     
  10. Mar 7, 2010 #5190 of 10284
    fljoe

    fljoe New Member

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    Oct 17, 2002
    Let me try and help you here .. The Red SATA cable .. one end should be connected to your hard drive and the other end to the top portion of the SATA to USB adapter. Ther other multicolor cable is the power supply cable, Connect one end to your SATA hard drive and the other end to the power adapter cable end of the SATA to USB adapter. Now connect the USB cable of your adapter to your computer's USB port. Then connect the Power Supply cable of the SATA to USB adapter to a power supply outlet. This should install the necessary drivers on your computer for the adapter you bought and you should be good to prepare the drive for WinMFS.
     
  11. Mar 7, 2010 #5191 of 10284
    MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

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    Portland,...
    Looks like we both posted at the same time...but I believe that for XP Pro SP3 there are no drivers to install.
     
  12. Mar 7, 2010 #5192 of 10284
    rainbow

    rainbow Member

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    Feb 7, 2008
    Yeah! Many thanks for your instructions - never would have figured it out.

    Now, I am too tired, howover, to deal w/actually hooking it up to my laptop. But it is all hooked together now w/the new HD, ready to go.

    Thanks again :D
     
  13. Mar 7, 2010 #5193 of 10284
    MPSAN

    MPSAN Active Member

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    Portland,...
    OH...I guess you did not see my message. :D
     
  14. Mar 7, 2010 #5194 of 10284
    yukit

    yukit Member

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    Jul 23, 2005
    Just a thought if running WinMFS on WinXP would cause a problem since WinXP is not capable to recognize the 4k block size, but WinMFS would work fine on Vista/Win7 (groks 4k block size)
     
  15. Mar 8, 2010 #5195 of 10284
    dswallow

    dswallow Save the ModeratŠ¾r TCF Club

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    Long...
    There should be no issues of recognition of a drive that internally uses 4K block sizes. The issue is with how writes are performed when the drive emulates a 512-byte block size. Think about it... if the drive physically can write only 4K at a time, when you want to write just 512 bytes, you're going to have to read the entire 4K block where the 512 byte block goes, and then write that entire 4K block back out. You'll usually see this referred to as "RMW" or "Read-Modify-Write". To some extent the effect of this should be minimized with write caching, especially considering the likelihood of most writes being sequential, thus never requiring a read-before-write operation. The problem can be compounded if your operating system works with 4K blocks, too, but ends up misaligned such that every 4K write crosses a physical 4K boundary and requires 2 4K block reads and 2 writes to write that single 4K block of data; though again write caching on the drive itself can mitigate this.

    But in the worst case, with no write caching going on, and with every write being to a random 512-byte block location, you could see performance amount to as little as 1/4 of what you should otherwise see from a drive.

    On the other hand, even 1/4 of the write speed these drives are capable of is more than sufficient for the needs of an HD DVR that's recording two programs at the same time it's playing back a third and even downloading a fourth... and then some. In the case of the Western Digital EARS drives, you're maybe looking at a very-worst-case performance around 20-25MB/second. And with a full HD OTA channel being about 18Mb/s, or under 2.5MB/s, there's quite enough performance there to do what is needed.
     
  16. Mar 8, 2010 #5196 of 10284
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    Wow! I couldn't have said it better myself! :up: Well, only knowing enough to be dangerous the fact is I couldn't have said it at all. I know what you said there makes sense and I can follow it for a bit, but my eyes glazed over somewhere along the way. The end bit does make sense so it somewhat (or possibly completely) explains why the WDxxEARS drives work in TiVo's but may give "legitimate" computers some heartburn.

    Thanks for that...I think. :eek: :)
     
  17. Mar 8, 2010 #5197 of 10284
    jlib

    jlib Lean Forward

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    Carmel...
    This I think was based on a preliminary comment from Spike last year before how they actually work and the nature of a specific problem (misalignment on XP partitions only) was widely known. Since the TiVo uses unaffected Apple partitions there should be no (and I do not know of any) problems using 4K drives. Any problems with those drives would be unrelated.
     
  18. Mar 8, 2010 #5198 of 10284
    jlib

    jlib Lean Forward

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    Nov 21, 2002
    Carmel...
    I can report that whatever fix TiVo did to the XL for the soft reboot issue did not percolate over to the S3 software (and at this point probably won't). Thought for a moment there I might be able to avoid pulling the drive to fix it.
     
  19. Mar 8, 2010 #5199 of 10284
    rainbow

    rainbow Member

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    Feb 7, 2008
    Thanks MPSAN as well. I did hook it up to my laptop last night, and my system recognized there was something new, and installed the drivers without my having to use the driver disc that was included w/the adapter.:up:

    I am going to try do the boot cd tonight re the wdidle3 thing, just to get that out of the way.

    I have a pulled orig 250HD from a series 3 that went bad and am hoping to do a backup/restore of whatever I can get from it. (had bought an original 250G series 3 HD from ebay that someone had upgraded quite a while ago so that one is now working in my S3-stroke of luck that I had that one laying around).

    I have an unused, normal, 750G external HD still in a box that I was going to try to use for the backup.

    I am now wondering if I can even use that one to download from my old Tivo HD; thinking now that maybe I would just be able to backup/restore to Tivo HDs. Am I correct in that assumption?

    If so, i might have to go ahead and get a 2nd adapter...
     
  20. Mar 8, 2010 #5200 of 10284
    richsadams

    richsadams Active Member

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    That's too bad. I thought they might include it in a transparent update. Maybe it'll be thrown in with the next full update...who knows? But I can see why they wouldn't...except perhaps on refurb boxes they use for exchanges. But, still no real reason to spread it to the masses as those drives shouldn't be in Series3 boxes anyway...at least in their view. Can't blame them for not spending any time on it I guess.
     

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